Lizzo - Big GRRRL Small World

It would also help, when talking about how bad the rapping on the album is, to quote some lyrics that are actually bad

The review seems pretty even-handed to me. Shoehorning Stacey Abrams in is dumb; someone should have cut that bit, but Pitchfork's editing seems kinda hands-off (the number of typos that get repaired in reviews as the day goes on is evidence of that). But the quoted rap lyrics are terrible - they do read like something an SNL writer would have Elizabeth Warren rap from a podium. And the general thesis - "the music can feel like a means to a greater end" and the description of it as "empowerment-core" - is an accurate reflection of the pop landscape in general. That's what the industry is selling this year.

It has been decreed that Gebrauchsmusik is ripe for a comeback.

It would also help, when talking about how bad the rapping on the album is, to quote some lyrics that are actually bad

this is one of the things that absolutely drives me batty

Here's the full verse from "Like A Girl", with the quoted lyrics connected to the rest of the verse:

Woke up feelin' like I just might run for President
Even if there ain't no precedent, switchin' up the messaging
I'm about to add a little estrogen
Buy my whip by myself, pay my rent by myself
Only exes that I care about are in my fucking chromosomes
I don't really need you, I'm Macaulay Culkin, home alone
Bad bitch, diamonds in my collarbone (Yee, yee)
Buy my whip by myself, pay my rent by myself

Here. by comparison, is a verse from "All of the Lights"

Something wrong
I hold my head
M.J. gone, our nigga dead!
I slapped my girl, she called the feds
I did that time and spent that bread
I'm heading home, I'm almost there
I'm on my way, headed up the stairs
To my surprise, a nigga replacing me
I had to take 'em to that ghetto university (all of the lights)

Are these both examples of "bad" lyrics? Is one worse than the other?

Saying "this sounds like something SNL would have Liz Warren rap in a skit" completely ignores the context and sentiment of the verse and, interestingly, erases exactly the persona Lizzo is projecting onto the verse in order to make an entirely bullshit point. She is not literally talking about running for President and it's wholly disingenuous to make that comparison when the review knows damn well that the line is about self-belief and self-confidence.

Meanwhile, Kanye is rambling about how Michael Jackson's death made him beat his girlfriend.

voting both bad but ye bad is extra bad

Kanye’s lyrics have always been horrendous

Are these both examples of "bad" lyrics?

Yes. "messaging"/"estrogen" is a terrible rhyme, and so is "chromosomes"/"Home Alone." Kanye West is just a terrible lyricist, period.

Is one worse than the other?

Yes. Kanye's is worse. But that's to be expected. Lizzo has "Juice" and "Good As Hell," both of which I like a lot, so she can do better than this.

Perpetua going all Culture Industry with this take.

http://www.fluxblog.org/2019/04/lizzo-cultural-cartography/

Also, sometimes bad Kanye lyrics are the best Kanye lyrics.

"president/precedent" is pretty poetry-slammish imo, which is not really my thing, but "estrogen/messenging" is a genuinely terrific off-rhyme. I like the x's in the chromosomes line though that's partly because it brings back fond memories of the first time I heart "Prophets of Rage." The bit about rent by myself etc. is the sort of lyric I connect with and feel a lot, it's so naked & real to me, lyrics that talk about how good it feels to put food on the table always get me. but I think most critics in 2019, when they talk about lyrics, are engaging "the narrative," you'll excuse me, not the lyrics.

estrogen/messenging is a pretty cool slant-rhyme, actually, and inseparable -- like all lyrics -- from the vocalist's delivery.

ha, xpost!

I mean those lyrics are no match for these gems from Best New Track by Lil Uzi Vert

Make it rain in the club like a nasty day
Told 'em that I'm comin', oh, no ejaculate
Pastry, pocket, boy, you not havin’ cake
Fuck that overcoat and I swear your jacket late

sorry have all of perpetua’s takes been declared irrelevant yet

literally leaves a huge trail of garbage and slime and bullshit behind him whenever he writes

literal lol at Lil Uzi Vert

People are like “who is this crazy man on the bus giggling at his phone”

TIL some people genuinely take pride in working to afford the necessities of life. it really does take all kinds!

Have you literally not heard any black music before

Turn it off for five minutes Simon

if you grew up with no zapatos
you'd celebrate the minute you been havin' dough

Technically I was responding to JCLC there but I'm happy to FP myself anyway

i judge all lyrical content by how it comes across when i read it written down

kind of love how the discourse on this record has splintered a bunch of archetypal allegiances

new board desc obvi

my reaction to this record on first pass was that shes exceptionally talented, but a few of the song types felt a bit "this is the amy winehouse type song; this is the bruno mars type song;" of major label A&R ... but I also have not spent enough time w her work to know whether or not there's a thematic connectivity that makes these costumes serve a wider narrative, & if that wider narrative is interesting, etc. ... that said she's such an evident talent that I can see really getting into a stage of her career where she starts leaning into the personal, idiosyncratic etc.

this is not the same, btw, as lamenting the Algorithms the way perpetua is ... why did so many poptimists go anti-poptimist as soon as it became about spotify instead of record labels? lol

if this album were titled "Songs For Lizzo To Get Super Famous By" I wouldn't be mad about it

what's a "personal, idiosyncratic" song? Real question. Is there a gauge? A failed genre exercise is 'personal,' too, under this rubric.

i mean, i dont think this is something that a critic (or critically thinking listener) can really get prescriptive about, i'm more theorizing a suspicion abt what lizzo project I'll end up drawn to personally than telling her what kind of music she should make ... rap music for me is partly abt small-frequency idiosyncracies of narrative style, of word choice, of flow & the subtle ways artists weave together a persona & style and how those two interact ... shes more of a pop artist so I'm not like shocked her music isn't as concerned w this

so like when she does her "Nebraska" lol

it is amazing how often the handwavy arguments about algorithms in today's music business could just as well have been applied to the machinations of radio since at least, like, the mid 80s if not even earlier

yeah its exceedingly annoying!! suddenly after two decades of being a poptimist you decided the popular will is ... bad?? perpetua as adorno is just an unexpected turn

i honestly think its just abt getting old & the platonic idea of pop in 2019 being pretty difft from the platonic ideal of 'pop' in 2001

the Perpetua thing is really weird, like this is from 5 years ago, a project she did with a local Mpls singer Caroline Smith when she was just doing clubs here...this whole idea her vibe is engineered is odd to me having seen her come up

https://youtu.be/vd4aLl6A_o4

or this her old group, The Chalice from six years ago, obv feels a lot more amateur but I feel like her vibe here is p much in line with her now

https://youtu.be/mFCPSnHk6P0

That let em say song feels like it wd be in the perpetua sweet spot tbh... she’s a v v good singer

Those are separate points

to spin off what dyl said about 80s radio Lizzo actually feels more like an old fashioned all around talented entertainer with strong pop instincts

it is amazing how often the handwavy arguments about algorithms in today's music business could just as well have been applied to the machinations of radio since at least, like, the mid 80s if not even earlier

― dyl, Monday, April 22, 2019 9:36 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

complaining about algorithms is the new rockism, and I'm not even being remotely facetious, all the same arguments have been ported over

anyway a) this album is good but not my favorite by her, so much of it feels like it's 75% there; b) I didn't view the review as mean in the slightest, the tone was very much "I like this artist but not this particular album, so I'm going to go slightly out of my way to temper every criticism with a comment about how talented she is, in the futile hope that this will placate the stans." or maybe I'm just projecting because I do that a lot in reviews

Natasha Bedingfield is just a highly tenuous and random name to drop in 2019 (seriously how many readers would even remember her?) And putting her in this context, especially up against Aretha, is always going to look like you're ladling on the damnation and sprinkling on a tiny bit of faint praise.

Also I don't think it's controversial to suggest that the boundaries of what does and doesn't constitute 'good rapping' (or good rap lyrics) have become so elastic over the last decade or so that it's OK to raise an eyebrow when a writer or publication chooses to start enforcing them in some cases and not others. And to interrogate the reasons for that.

FWIW I don't actually enjoy Lizzo's music that much and haven't felt the urge to hear this yet - but the review doesn't read to me like its meeting the music half way. It might be trying to meet the artist half way, or the message, or the fans, but that's not quite the same thing.

Natasha Bedingfield is just a highly tenuous and random name to drop in 2019 (seriously how many readers would even remember her?)

I really thought you were joking at first

Dan... your jacket late on that one homie

tashbed is one of those artists like ashlee simpson whose reputation is wildly different between the critical bubble and most other people

I have no dog in this fight but someone here at work just played that "juice" song and surely I'm not the only person to notice its similarity to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4306i99LMXo

it is amazing how often the handwavy arguments about algorithms in today's music business could just as well have been applied to the machinations of radio since at least, like, the mid 80s if not even earlier

― dyl, Monday, April 22, 2019 9:36 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah its exceedingly annoying!! suddenly after two decades of being a poptimist you decided the popular will is ... bad?? perpetua as adorno is just an unexpected turn

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Monday, April 22, 2019 9:43 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i honestly think its just abt getting old & the platonic idea of pop in 2019 being pretty difft from the platonic ideal of 'pop' in 2001

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Monday, April 22, 2019 9:44 PM (yesterday) Bookmark

it needs to be acknowledged tho that the fixation on algorithms and pop music is an outgrowth of the fixation on algorithms and our every day lives in general. radio programmers weren't organizing our friendships or news in the mid 80s. it's a relevant conversation your points notwithstanding