Taking Sides: NEW ORDER VS RUSH?

Tough call! I might ultimately love the same number of albums from each, but NO has all those singles ... But then, Rush live had fans air drumming/guitaring/bassing *at the same time*.

This is an impossible choice.

Thanks to this poll I now have the first verse lyrics of 'Regret' stuck in my head, to the melody of the fist verse of 'Red Barchetta'.

*first even

also Rush wins this imo

Yeah, band I love vs band I mostly hate

I think I actually did a Joy Division vs Rush thread once, comparing how the two bands bridged the late 70s to early 80s going from heavy (if cold) guitars to icy synths over dynamic rhythm sections.

what do I get out of this?

a double martini with Geddy Lee

^ the dream

Voted a Tetley's bitter with Stephen Morris.

i voted for new order but i wonder if i'd be happier if i was the kind of person who'd choose rush

I don't get what you mean by that statement, treeship. There's a lot of joy in New Order's music

treeship and the snow dog
square for battle!
let the fray begin

Maybe treesh just wants to read some Ayn Rand than mess about with fash synths

Rush

I have a lot of time for New Order, but after some thought I'm going to go with Rush. Why? Because the only New Order studio album that is front-to-back great is Technique. All of the others from Movement up until Brotherhood are a mix of mostly stunning moments with the occasional bit of filler, and from Republic onwards mostly filler with the occasional stunning moment.

Every album Rush released from 2112 to Power Windows is fantastic. That's 8 fantastic studio albums vs. 1.

eight straight albums without one example of filler? That's a record unsurpassed by the Stones, Beatles, Aretha, Sleater Kinney, etc

i like rush a lot but i think almost every record in their classic run is slightly uneven (even signals, my favorite record by them, feels this way to me). i think the same thing about new order, but imo several new order singles changed music, so it's new order

I'm genuinely curious about what Treesh meant. I was trying to work out whether it's something about how a pov built around finding individual strength to struggle against meaninglessness and corruption could lead to greater happiness than expressions of joy or, uh, whatever it is that Bernard Sumner is expressing.

(although idk if there is any actual evidence that Rush fans are happier than New Order fans)

LOL @ anyone voting Rush tbh

I'd make the same case as Turrican, just with the bands reversed and the ratio being 7 to 1 (or 10 to 1 if you include Joy Division).

Now, if you were to just break it down the a battle of the rhythm sections ...

Fills as integral part of composition vs fills irrelevant to process

i love a good drumfill yet fills irrelevant to process wins every time

What I'm generally surprised about is how many people here seem to like (or even love) both bands! Like, in my mind they are polar opposites.

Rush.

New Order is a blind spot for me outside of a few songs. I expect them to win though.

Rush.

New Order is a blind spot for me outside of a few songs. I expect them to win though.

Instrumentally, it’s hard to make comparisons - Morris is the most compelling part of the band Imo due to his repetition. Geddy plays a much more traditional role to Hook and Sumner is way more like a Neil Young as a guitar player compared to Lifeson. The sonic space they occupy is obviously very different most of the time (not forgetting Gillian but just coming from the original gtr/bs/dr of the original band)

Prefer Rush as a band but can see why Morris>Peart for example; perfectly feasible to prefer NO’s setup beyond a preference to their music/albums/singles

Peart is obviously a highly influential drummer, but there are virtually no drummers clearly influenced by Peart I'd want to listen to. Morris is also massively influential, but drummers influenced by him play in all sorts of great bands.

Funny how New Order, for all its robotic inclinations, is actually super loose in its arrangements, but Rush, three versatile virtuosos pretty much capable of anything, specializes in super precise highly locked in arrangements. They really are total opposites.

"Working Man" is a rare example of a 70s hard rock song where the bassline is far more complex and busy than the guitar line. I feel like most of the propulsion in that tune is coming from the bass, buried in the mix as it is.

(talking about the verse/chorus part of the song)

I also like how Lee keeps varying the line. He hardly ever plays the same thing twice during the verses, while Lifeson keeps hammering away at the riff. It's a fun one to play.

The way Peart shakes up his arrangements is pretty awesome, too. Even in the songs with more traditional verse-chorus structure he rarely repeats himself. "Subdivisions" is a great example, he's always changing things up.

new order is better in concept than reality
rush is better in reality than in concept

I like them both, Rush did a way wider variety of and volume of great work and being an amazing live band for over 40 years counts for something

new order is better in concept than reality
rush is better in reality than in concept

I can get with this. For sure, the *idea* of New Order is superior (to me) to the *idea* of Rush. But in practice/reality, I probably like Rush more.

Not sure what the idea of New Order is tbf.

fusing electronics with people playing? bridging punk and programmed dance music?

Emo Kraftwerk?

Either Rush, with Bernard Sumner on vocals, or New Order, with Geddy Lee on vocals.

three versatile virtuosos pretty much capable of anything

I sort of wonder about this, actually. Outside of that one EP of (kind of meh) 60s rock covers, I don't know how much evidence there is of them playing non-Rush music. I actually don't know how well Lifeson or Lee would acquit themselves if they had to e.g. do session gigging, jam on standards, play Bach at a wedding, etc. (Peart did study with a jazz drummer late in his career, interestingly.)

I said four years ago on Rush Vs. Led Zeppelin CHOPS ONLY Poll :

most traditional definitions of mastery and musicianship would seem to involve deep familiarity and competence with some sort of standard repertoire, whether common practice, jazz, folk, etc. Zeppelin clearly had this. While Rush are dazzlingly skilled in their way, their 'chops' seem very non-traditional: they are great at composing and playing Rush songs, whether that requires playing in Locrian mode in 5/4 or playing bass synth pedals and keyboards and singing at the same time or finding all sorts of ways to process guitar sounds. There is not much, though, to suggest that they have a very strong grounding in any idiom, even compared to the way that bands like Yes or ELP could jump between pastiches of English folk, Baroque, jazz, etc. Not only do they not improvise very much but I am also not sure that they could play from notated scores very effectively. As such, their 'chops' might seem somewhat 'modernist' in a way?

New Order, with Geddy Lee on vocals.

Maybe parts of Signals are as close as you could get to this?

new order is better in concept than reality

I guess no one in this thread dances.

Afaict most people itt are picking New Order.

I would definitely not call Rush "capable of anything," not after watching Peart attempt to swing during his drum solo on the 2011 tour.

Hah.

I file them under weirdos like Belew, clearly gifted but specialists.

I wonder to what extent the hyper-precise, locked-in nature of the arrangements that you described is a product of their limitations in that way. NB I actually think it's really cool that they came up with such a meticulous, idiosyncratic style, possibly as a result.

That's a really good question. I guess The other year we saw Geddy sitting in with Yes, that's no small potatoes. but the other guys don't really do that.

There's also the fact that all of Rush's stuff from 2112 to Power Windows is impeccably produced, whereas the production on prime New Order LP's ranges from OTM (Technique) to "needs more work" (selected tracks from Power, Corruption & Lies, Low-Life and Brotherhood) ...

Also, Geddy Lee's voice isn't for everyone but I never sit through a classic Rush track thinking "hmm, needs more autotune"

ALSO, there's also the fact that The Cure did New Order better than New Order.

Though not the electronic stuff, the Cure never really went that route.

I mentioned Belew, btw, because once I watched him getting interviewed, and the guy asking questions kept asking about his influences, and Belew mentioned someone like Hendrix. So the interviewer asked if Belew could demonstrate something he got from Hendrix, and it was like pulling teeth before Belew did a couple of seconds of a Hendrix-y sort of thing. Come to think of it, Fripp is another guitarist who I have only heard mention Hendrix as an influence, but I've never heard him play anything but Fripp-y stuff. Same with Eddie Van Halen.

i never sit through a classic new order track thinking it needs more autotune either, weird

Heh, I like the out of tune-ness of New Order, it's one of my favorite things about them.

It's more like seeing only that clip of Trump mocking a disabled person and knowing everything there is to know.

If you hate "Tom Sawyer" and love New Order, it's probably fair for you to safely cast your vote tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9kYUhd7e6Y

I haven't heard that album in 20+ years but it came back into my head in an instant.

Re: Robert Smith being a fan of the Cure, he apparently booked them as a support act back in '79

https://www.spin.com/articles/cure-lol-tolhurst-peter-hook-memoir-bollocks-sell-out

I'm sure Robert Smith was a huge Cure fan!

lol whoops

I rarely listen to peak-prog Rush, but I put on "A Farewell to Kings" today and thought, man, this is awesome, how can it not be Rush? But then I put on "Low-Life," which I haven't heard in who knows how long, and it kicked ass (I stand by "Emo Kraftwerk"). So ... back to square one.

lol, Willl.

Rush, easily.

Now, Rush vs. Joy Division... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

This thread got me thinking about what a Rush cover of "The Perfect Kiss" would sound like. I can kind of hear it in my mind. You know Peart would be hitting all sorts of blocks and bells on the intro. I'd think it would work and might not be as unlikely a cover. I know Rush liked Ultravox quite a bit or have seen them referenced in articles.

It would work in the imaginary split 7" between the two groups. I have no idea what Rush tune New Order could do at this point but they probably would have been able to give a nice 80s tech pop sound to some of Rush's stuff like that. Can't see NO much acknowledging Rush's existence.

A synthetic disco version of A Farewell To Kings, with disaffected, nonchalant vocals would be nice.

I like New Order, but I think Rush are about as talented as it gets. I don't love all their stuff, but their musicianship is undeniable.

re: the New Order vs. The Cure discussion above, the two songs from those artists that remind me the most of each other are Your Silent Face and Plainsong, they both have a kind of downcast magnificence

New Order performing Your Silent Face at the Berkeley Community Theater was one of the most amazing live music experiences I've ever had

New Order could totally do one of the power ballads from Power Windows. Like Grand Designs or Middletown Dreams or Emotion Detector.

But not as well.

They could, but it's too on the nose. I'd rather hear them interpret one of the more metal/ren faire sounding tunes.

I knew opening this thread would be a mistake.

ultimately I don't really think these bands are comparable

they're not anything alike, so it's just...which aesthetic / songwriting / performance style do you prefer

Oh c'mon, New Order's whole sound was clearly an attempt to capture the electronic majesty of Signals.

I liked Signals but New Order had a much more thrilling homemade emotional sound to me

I knew opening this thread would be a mistake.

― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r),

New board description etc

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

98!

Bottles of beer on the wall?

108

Sorry, I'm sleep deprived and bitchy.

Got a feeling New Order would beat a lot of bands on ILM

Why does ILM not like to rock?

Perfect Kiss video version rocks harder than every Rush song combined

Barney certainly rocks those shorts.

B-but...

http://www.rushoddities.com/rush-oddities/images/geddy-alex-tennis-73-full.jpg

bands in shorts poll imminent, a certain ratio's gonna win though

I expect no less from a bunch of Canadian goofballs. New Order in shorts is more of a scandal.

70/80s was an era of rampant short shorts wearing