US Politics April 2019 Thread: 'I find that pretty hard to believe'

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The twist is that he tried to obstruct justice repeatedly, but his staff and inner circle kept stopping him from totally breaking a law. So ... the system worked?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:13 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah it seems clear that he tried through multiple channels to impede or stop the investigation but since those efforts largely failed... no obstruction?

― circa1916, Thursday, April 18, 2019 12:16 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests."

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:23 (five years ago) link

So one big finding so far, following up on David’s note below. It’s in the “Introduction to Volume II”, the obstruction part. It’s very specific and detailed. But it’s only two pages. You can read it yourself. It’s pages 213-14 in the PDF, pages 1 and 2 of that volume of the report. The gist though is that the Special Counsel decided not only that they couldn’t indict a sitting President but that it would not be fair even to accuse him of a crime without indicting him. They also say that if they decided he shouldn’t face prosecution (under the normal standards that would apply to a non-President) that they would say so. They did not. The gist is that the whole non-finding of obstruction seems to rest on the DOJ/OLC belief that a sitting President cannot be indicted – quite contrary to Barr’s claim.

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:24 (five years ago) link

They were just words, sterile, ineffective words. He was exercising his first amendment rights, no big deal. Holding the President of the United States to this standard is totally fine.

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:26 (five years ago) link

What does the redacted Mueller report look like? Check out this great visualization from @gaufre and @LATimesGraphics https://t.co/8phguSNTI6 pic.twitter.com/Hlm1O5aLLH

— Chris Megerian (@ChrisMegerian) April 18, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:31 (five years ago) link

lmao everybody else in the country would go to jail for even a tenth of this

frogbs, Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:37 (five years ago) link

Probably the coolest message you could relate to a walking moral vacuum is that any degree of supercriminality to which he aspires, however extreme, will elicit nothing more injurious than huffing and puffing from people he couldn't give two shits about. Like I'm sure nothing but very good, very cool things will follow upon the dawning of that realization.

Roger Stone's official name is now "harm to ongoing matter"

mh, Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link

Xp to km- that’s key, i think.

also,

- GOP is willing to look the other way
- republicans can say "no collusion" for the next few years for political gain
- democrats can point to all the obvious ways the president is corrupt for the next few years for political gain
- meanwhile, we are in hell

actually worse than hell, because gop is motivated to lockdown electoral problems, overturn the judiciary, install more cronies to doj and agencies. given the anti-small d- democratic scenario that we are in, and the amount of time they have to work, either a ‘normal’ impeachment, or some other extrapolitical intervention (by which i mean eg special counsel dropping lots of terrible info, or powerful federal district cases, not violence) is required to get this stupendous and lethal turd flushed. otherwise the pressure will only rise, with all the dangers associated there.

Hunt3r, Thursday, 18 April 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link

This isn't the same as the Barr release. It paints a much less rosy pic, confirms sketchy acts that were previously rumored in the press, and shows Trump tried to interfere and obstruct but was thwarted by deputies who refused his orders.

This is not a victory for Trump like Barr report was. It's not going to move the needle much re: approval rating or lead to impeachment, but the press is already running with the "this is the end of my presidency" quotes as well as other salacious details, as opposed to the Barr report, where they basically said DEMS GOT IT WRONG.

This might not make a big diff re: voters, but it sure isn't going to win Trump any new voters either. Repubs can spin it however they want. The report has him making a weak-assed statement about it being the end of his Presidency and his active attempts to subvert justice.

Also supports the Dems claim that Barr is doing Trump's bidding.

Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:01 (five years ago) link

this aged well

I know this piece is not going to make me popular. But I'm willing to give Bill Barr the benefit of the doubt—for the next two weeks. https://t.co/5IX95XdJug

— Benjamin Wittes (@benjaminwittes) April 1, 2019

mookieproof, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:01 (five years ago) link

At the risk of sounding like an annual broken record, I still don't get why people aren't out protesting. Is no criminal behaviour brazen enough when it comes to this piece of shit?

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:02 (five years ago) link

Xxpost I mean, Mueller's report says some attempts to investigate collusion were stonewalled by destruction/non-preservation of data and that access to that information could have yielded a different verdict.

It also basically says Trump tried to obstruct justice but was too stupid and got bailed out by people refusing his orders.

I'm not broken up about this.

Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:04 (five years ago) link

Xpost people have been protesting since the morning after the election. Short of violent insurrection, it's proven ineffective since the GOP protects its own.

Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:05 (five years ago) link

the key is to get out there and vote for congressional representation in your district that is likely gerrymandered so you're either voting for a democrat that was going to win anyway or lodging a protest vote against a republican that was going to win anyway, unless you live in one of the 10% or so of districts that could be plausibly described as "swing districts". btw if you live in one of those swing districts your representative has a 99% chance of being a complete asshole who thinks that centrism is an ideology

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:15 (five years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4cw62KWkAIKLA9.jpg

mookieproof, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:16 (five years ago) link

Any writing which isn't immediately posted to Twitter is highly suspect imo.

lawyers don't take notes

just

amazing

gbx, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:22 (five years ago) link

i wonder what trump thinks legal pads are for

pee tape update:

Comey’s briefing included the Steele reporting’s unverified allegation that the Russians had compromising tapes of the President involving conduct when he was a private citizen during a 2013 trip to Moscow for the Miss Universe Pageant. During the 2016 presidential campaign, a similar claim may have reached candidate Trump. On October 30, 2016, Michael Cohen received a text from Russian businessman Giorgi Rtskhiladze that said, “Stopped flow of tapes from Russia but not sure if there’s anything else. Just so you know ....” 10/30/16 Text Message, Rtskhiladze to Cohen. Rtskhiladze said “tapes” referred to compromising tapes of Trump rumored to be held by persons associated with the Russian real estate conglomerate Crocus Group, which had helped host the 2013 Miss Universe contest in Russia... Rtskhiladze said he was told the tapes were fake, but he did not communicate that to Cohen.

i see the flow has been stopped. probably a painful process for all involved

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:23 (five years ago) link

i am alluding to the pain that is experienced when a man stops the pee flow

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:26 (five years ago) link

the part underlined in red is what Barr chose to excerpt in his shitty letter from a couple weeks ago:

https://cdn.talkingpointsmemo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/C5F24C35-396B-4340-9EB5-ACAA0FED6ACB.jpeg

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:30 (five years ago) link

xpost
collusion is stored in the balls

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:30 (five years ago) link

what a load of bullshit

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:31 (five years ago) link

xp barr and this whole ordeal is bullshit, not the collusion in the balls. that's just science

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:31 (five years ago) link

protest is like group therapy, makes everyone feel a little better. doesn't do shit politically. the biggest protests in history were against the iraq war

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:32 (five years ago) link

It works in some countries.

pomenitul, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:32 (five years ago) link

just lmao that they never got to interview Trump under oath

frogbs, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:43 (five years ago) link

lmao that they *gave up even trying.*

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:44 (five years ago) link

Muellers explanation for why they stopped trying was... not satisfying.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:48 (five years ago) link

I think I understand where he was coming from but it's as much overthinking as Comey did with equally self-defeating results.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:49 (five years ago) link

In the introduction to section 2, the report states that though they accept the policy that a sitting president cannot be indicted, the investigation is preserving evidence while it is fresh in case the DOJ wants to prosecute Trump after he leaves office. That does not sound like Mueller punting anything to Barr, since presumably Barr will not be AG after Trump leaves office

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:53 (five years ago) link

god forbid they treat Trump the way they would literally any other human being on the planet

it really is maddening - every news outlet in the country treats Trump with kid gloves and "both sides" everything he does, which led directly to his election, and now he's too stupid and inept to be convinced of a crime

frogbs, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:55 (five years ago) link

Again, the other way to look at is that he is sleazy and sketchy and fuck, which we all knew, but didn't do most of the shit he wanted to do because he is also stupid and inept, which we all suspected. But meanwhile there are 15 or so other investigations apparently in progress, and those involve hard numbers and facts, not discerning intent or whatever, and can't be interfered with the same way. And no way is congress done with its own investigations, not even including the prospect of impeachment. And there is another election looming. And he will still regardless be dead long before most of us. (which at this rate clearly just doomed me to an early demise.)

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 18 April 2019 17:59 (five years ago) link

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/17/kamala-harris-leads-campaign-money-race-1280546

donor class might be coalescing around Harris after all

― Simon H., Thursday, 18 April 2019

She makes most sense, especially given its likely to come down to head to head vs Bernie. If it ends up being vs Warren then Beto might me a more suitable choice, but that looks unlikely, and it doesn't really look like Beto is going to get any momentum, whereas Kamala's potential looks a lot more solid.

anvil, Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:06 (five years ago) link

wrong thread sorry

anvil, Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:07 (five years ago) link

The differences are stark between what Attorney General Barr said on obstruction and what Special Counsel Mueller said on obstruction. #MuellerReport

— Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) April 18, 2019

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:10 (five years ago) link

I suppose the reporter did back flips paraphrasing for the sake of the lede:

White House counselor Kellyanne Conway on Thursday compared special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation to a “political proctology exam” on President Trump who emerged from the metaphorical procedure unscathed.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:13 (five years ago) link

And he will still regardless be dead long before most of us.

His parents lived to the ages of 93 and 88, so he'll be around a while yet. Admittedly as a drooling, senile, nappy-shitting wreck, but maybe someone in that state can still be prosecuted?

Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:29 (five years ago) link

They weren’t obese speed freaks. Trump is on borrowed time healthwise

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:32 (five years ago) link

Eastwood's still allowed to make movies so idk

Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:34 (five years ago) link

uuuugh, no, am i really here on the morning of the mueller report thinking about whether or not maybe trump will finally get in trouble when he's 90

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:36 (five years ago) link

...Sorry, is Conaway under the impression that proctology generally leaves patients scathed? If so, she might want to encourage her husband to shop around for someone who doesn't reduce his rectum to a blighted ruin.

@2600: OK, we'll probably regret this but we made a *searchable* PDF of the #MuellerReport available at https://2600.com/MuellerReport.pdf. Please share.

gbx, Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:47 (five years ago) link

I got no hits with "piss"

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:49 (five years ago) link

try "urine" for a surprise hit

Simon H., Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:51 (five years ago) link

Try doodoo if u want the whole doc to open

Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Thursday, 18 April 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link

Ah. TWO impeachment referrals today. https://t.co/sXJGmhMi24

— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) April 18, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 18 April 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link

Knew he was too good to be true.

wtf mayor pete

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 April 2019 19:08 (five years ago) link

is it okay to admire the crispness of the Mueller team's prose? I'm reading this shit like it was Bernanos.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 April 2019 19:10 (five years ago) link


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