17 Indie Artists on Their Oddest Odd Jobs That Pay the Bills When Music Doesn’t (not a poll)

The self-promoter formerly known as the artist is indeed a vile phenomenon.

no, i don't hate the artist themselves. i hate the system that rewards unhealthy behavior and punishes failure to behave in that manner.

Sorry, that wasn't entirely clear. The phenomenon is vile, I don't hate the artists themselves either.

yeah i got that after i posted, i'm gonna try to slow down and read more :)

Sometimes what you think you want isn't the same as what you actually want. For instance, you might think you want to play to lots of new people who haven't heard your music, but then when you actually do a couple of those gigs you realise that playing in a basement to 20 friends can be more fun and rewarding in some ways.

I think many of the “indie” artists I’ve liked in the past 10 years or so haven’t necessarily had to do a lot of “self-promotion,” though. Parquet Courts (to choose a random example) make a point of not even being “online” (or at least they used to, I haven’t checked lately, not so into them anymore). I guess those guys have passed the threshold where they don’t need day jobs, don’t need to hustle because the label does it for them, etc.?

That's the thing though, even if they're not doing it themselves, someone else is probably doing it for them, so they're still benefiting from that sort of promotion.

But that isn’t new(?) Artists have usually had to hustle themselves (flyers, social media, handmade demos, etc.) when they’re young & hungry; and then maybe be lucky/talented/whatever enough to get signed and have professional PR? Maybe I’m missing the finer point here tho

There really isn't much correlation between being cool-and-online and actual ticket/record sales; certain examples definitely exist, but it's not really the case anymore. If anything I would argue that it's proven to be a better business model for a musician to mind one's business. I only post here still because the Canadian government subsidizes me $10 per otm

Why didn't you say so earlier?

fgti otm x10

Selling records is more of a challenge though. T think the trick is you have to be a regular presence on social media, which is a shame in some ways but necessary if you want to sell records in 2019, unless you can enlist someone else to do this stuff.

otm, and there is a mental health aspect to this that I think is too often overlooked: the history of recorded music is full of brilliant but awkward, shy, and in many cases mentally ill people who could never have been expected to utilize / exploit social media the way, err, famous artists do now. I mean, a ton of those people were scared to death to even perform live, much less have to engage in what is basically a daily virtual meet-and-greet with every stranger who imposes themselves on you

Yeah but folks from Skip Spence to Cat Power to Jandek still “made it” in their way

I guess your point is they wouldn’t “make it” now b/c they wouldn’t do social media and that’s become de rigeur?

yes, that was my point.

But I guess that just doesn’t ring true to me. I think those particular artists could have just as much success if they emerged now — maybe even more — without doing anything different.

It also goes the other way — Will Seat Headrest would have been just an unknown kid with a bunch of home tapes if he were born 20 yrs. earlier, but the Internet existed and so he built up a big following just by putting his stuff online.

A big difference to me, though, is the loss of the “music press” as a central source of promotion/info about small artists. I bought the first Cat Power album, which was on a small Italian label (IIRC), because I read a review of it in CMJ. I don’t where I would hear of such a thing today (or I guess where a 19-y.o. equivalent of me hears about it today).

The likes of Tusk, The Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road, Low, Avalon or any impeccably produced album you could care to name would not have been anywhere near the same without the financial backing of the band/artists record company.

Sure, but the technology has changed so much that now you can make Low with a near-zero budget, if you have the time and creativity. A Four Tet or an Arca can make a relatively popular record with a laptop and Ableton, same for most radio rap (sure, expensive mix and mastering engineers are usually involved in that stuff, but don't necessary have to be if you have a producer who knows what they're doing).

Another thing that feels really different today is how important it is for an artist to have a strong visual aesthetic to go along with their music. If they happen to be a graphic or video designer along with being a musician, or have amazing personal style, great. If not, then that's where it takes money to work with people who will do that for them.

I guess that's not a new thing, but when you combine it with the new DIY social media approach, it often gets overlooked I think.

It also goes the other way — Will Seat Headrest would have been just an unknown kid with a bunch of home tapes if he were born 20 yrs. earlier, but the Internet existed and so he built up a big following just by putting his stuff online.

if your intention was to suggest that the new model has been a boon to savvy but dull people making mediocre-at-best music at the expense of shy and awkward geniuses who might be creating the next Tusk, Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road, Low, or Avalon, then we are definitely on the same page

Also, wasn't indie superstar Lou Barlow "just an unknown kid with a bunch of home tapes?" Wasn't the exalted Bob Pollard "just an unknown Midwestern middle aged jock with a bunch of home tapes?" They did alright thanks to the patronage of labels with dough!

I suppose the artist gets the self-indulgent thrill of creating something, but only in the short term. Of course, lack of recognition and lack of financial success can be demoralising and lead to apathy and a "what's the point?" attitude.

for some reason this is making me laugh ...

I forget some of you can't grasp the concept of enjoying doing something

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, April 13, 2019 8:23 AM (three hours ago)

otm x 10,000 -- being American, I know that matt does not get otm government subsidies

I Don't Enjoy Making Music

Paul, you’re making my point for me... Bedroom artists had ways of “succeeding” in the past, and they still do today (your pointless snark around CSH notwithstanding)

Also, FWIW, Barlow already had a rep from Dino Jr., he didn’t come out of nowhere

Sure, but the technology has changed so much that now you can make Low with a near-zero budget, if you have the time and creativity.

I would argue that you couldn't, and that one might try and set out to make Low with a near-zero budget, but what you'd end up with is the kind of characterless "in the box" sterility which characterises the music of this decade which already sounds stagnant and, dare I say it, cheap. The fact that you then go on to list artists using the laptop-and-Ableton combo says it all. I personally think there's a world of difference between music made "in the box" vs. what Daft Punk did on Random Access Memories.

Indeed. If a painting is commissioned and not sold or even looked at, then it has been a waste in the long term, no matter how enjoyable the process of creating the work was in the first place. If the work wasn't commissioned, then I suppose the artist gets the self-indulgent thrill of creating something, but only in the short term. Of course, lack of recognition and lack of financial success can be demoralising and lead to apathy and a "what's the point?" attitude.

Please feel free to GTFO. Painting, speaking from the perspective of a completely unsuccessful painter in terms of sales or even exhibitions, is something that is a lifelong pursuit and the means by which I come to terms with what consciousness is, how I organize thoughts and in fact the very act of perception and cognition. It is not a self-indulgent thrill, it's hard fucking work that sometimes pays off in unexpected ways but just as often is completely demoralizing strictly on its own terms, to say nothing of showing them or selling them. Yet somehow, for some reason, I continue to pursue it because it is a way for me to engage creatively with being a person. It's sad that you can't understand it but it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

many xposts

As for the notion that Skip Spence "made it", I would argue that he didn't. The small fame that he has in music critic circles is all based on the fact that he didn't "make it", and the small fame surrounding Oar is entirely based on natrative ("hey dudes, listen to this recording made by someone who was totally mental!") rather than the music itself.

*narrative

Jesus.

xxxpost:

Yet, you actually - whether you're aware of it or not - agreed with exactly what I was getting at!

at the expense of shy and awkward geniuses who might be creating the next Tusk, Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road, Low, or Avalon

Circling back quickly — Paul, were you suggesting that the artists who recorded (say) Low and Avalon were awkward introverts who never would have made it in today’s Instagram-focused times?

I certainly don't agree with a single thing you've said on this thread. Your opinions are garbage and I regret even letting your nonsense enter my consciousness.

That's not how it read, but fair enough - you now have a reason to paint a watercolour and feel demoralised about it afterwards.

Getting a wee bit too cocky these days, son. Remember what happened last time?

Turrican is being a total cock but the FPs will fall as they may

- it totally fucking sucks to be part of that 22% and to be out on tour and find that the promoter has just opted not to invest the time and take a loss on the show, and you drove three hours to play to six people, the show just isn't listed in the papers or even at the venue, this happens to people all the time

I started not knowing about gigs being on when 3/4 of the papers went away (including the dance music one) and also people started listing gigs exclusively on Facebook

Sometimes people just decide to go whole-hog and embrace Patreon and Kickstarter-- in many ways, I have to respect Amanda Palmer for being the most quintessentially American musician for, somehow, turning a monstrous profit with such little talent or personal magnetism.

she absolutely has personal magnetism: lots of people are repelled by her, a sufficient amount are strongly attracted.

Well, this is not a case of opposites attract. I am repelled by her but I oddly admire how extreme she has been in riding her learjet of virtue all the way to Australia.

And yes, I have NO IDEA what's going on in the city any more, aside from Facebook events, and we still have a free weekly here. Personally I miss local message boards and wish they'd never went away

Circling back quickly — Paul, were you suggesting that the artists who recorded (say) Low and Avalon were awkward introverts who never would have made it in today’s Instagram-focused times?

― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Saturday, April 13, 2019 3:36 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No - I would not call Bowie or Ferry introverted at all. I was merely suggesting that the person who today might make records as great as Low or Avalon may also be a weirdo person who is afraid of social media, leery of anything with a whiff of networking, and maybe doesn't enjoy playing live

And I’m having trouble thing of many artists fitting that bill who achieved great popularity (and $$$) in the past; at least the “didn’t enjoy playing live” part. But there have always been Jandek types who achieved their own kind of success.

Steely Dan, Kate Bush, XTC...

...The Beatles after 1966

literally almost every big rapper today doesn't really play live until after they are big, they might enjoy it though

The Beatles didn’t have to tour anymore, they were established super-mega-stars. As for the other artists you listed, I could probably list rough equivalents today (keeping in mind that styles and “the industry” have changed, but not in a “it’s all Instagram’s fault” way).
xp

...and UMS makes my point that there are a whole other set of avenues for artists to “make it” today who might not have before, which is why I don’t follow Paul’s “it’s a net loss” argument.

Can you elucidate? Explain how you think a budding Kate Bush living in a small town is going to "make it" in 2019?

the new model has been a boon to savvy but dull people making mediocre-at-best music at the expense of shy and awkward geniuses

Like if you’re such a crippling shy & awkward genius that you’re not even interested or able to get your music heard today (of all eras), how would you have done in the ‘70s? Sent a demo to Virgin Records and hoped for the best?

xp that is, with no industry contacts and no rich and / or famous mom or dad

by adventuring on a riverboat or something iirc

How was Kate Bush “discovered”? I honestly don’t know

Like if you’re such a crippling shy & awkward genius that you’re not even interested or able to get your music heard today (of all eras), how would you have done in the ‘70s? Sent a demo to Virgin Records and hoped for the best?

umm...yes?