Star Trek Discovery: The Bryan Fuller TV reboot

lots of characters became idiots in this episode. the trap is based on a how burnham needs to survive in order to become the red angel, but they're trying to trap the red angel to learn how to prevent the future that she is from.... does no one see the problem with this?

otm

i mean isn’t the angel interceding to stop a bad future at particular moments and their plan is to pull her off her quest and maybe stop her ability to keep jumping through time by wrecking her tether?

Also, they think the Red Angel is future version of Burnhan, yet somehow they think they can surprise with a trap involving the present Burnham. Er, wouldn't the RA then know about the trap, since she was there in her past? They're lucky the Angel turns out to be someone else, because otherwise their idiotic plan most likely wouldn't have worked.

I mean, the plot direction that fixes this is that the RA they’ve been scanning *is* Burnham and she takes over the role in the next episode or so. So we just saw how she gets the suit.

YES I DID CATCH TILLY SAYING ROBIT :P

(I only saw this last night)

Great ep but my only problem is the real dramatic turn was around robit - sorry, Airiam - being shot out the airlock. There was a palpable undercurrent of "be shocked and grieve now pls" but her character had had ZERO fleshing out til this very episode, so it lost any power it could have had otherwise.

...pun not intended re "fleshing out" lol sorry.

Saru’s funeral vocal spot was nice

Oooer seems like I'm still one episode behind. *backs out of thread with hands over eyes*

So apparently, they changed the actor Airiam's actor between season 1 and 2, and the women who replaced on the bridge is played by the actor who was Airiam during season 1. Sounds kinda weird that they would switch actors, if the original one was still available to play another role?

Section 31 guy getting it through the eye was a pretty good moment, I actually went 'woah!' Or maybe 'whoa!'

Sounds like they liked the original actor and, knowing that her part was being written out or had a lot of time in the makeup chair, decided to keep her around by moving her to another role.

Or vice versa, they liked the actor who died as Airiam and thought she'd be a better match with the plot arc we saw.

ledge otm

Burnham cries way too much in this show.

Was the eye needle machine explained? How did Leland get tied up?

No one on the show understands grandfather paradoxes again this episode. How did Mike's mom see her die hundreds of times? That line seemed like it was from a different story, or was only included because it sounded cool.

That episode was a mess

I'm also wondering who the Red Angel's opposing force is... All we know is that they're from the 28th century and they're adept at assimilating technology. My guess is it's an evolved version of the Borg collective. The red dots seen in the cyborg officer's eyes when they're controlling her remind me of the red laser lights of the Borg, and it being them would also explain the plan to exterminate biological life.

― Tuomas, Sunday, March 10, 2019 11:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So, when I came up with this theory it seemed kinda far-fetched, but the latest episode seems to kinda hint to that direction. First of all, Control uses nanotech to make Leland into some kind of cyborg and takes over his will, which feels a lot like Borg assimilation. Secondly, when Control is about to assimilate him, it says "struggle is useless"... Which sounds like a variation of "resistance is futile".

Of course, there's the slight problem that by the 23rd century Borg have been around for a long time already, whereas Control is supposedly gaining consciousness only then. But with all the time travel going on it still might make sense; like, for example, what if in the end Control travels back in time and ends up becoming the first version of the Borg collective consciousness.

No one on the show understands grandfather paradoxes again this episode. How did Mike's mom see her die hundreds of times? That line seemed like it was from a different story, or was only included because it sounded cool.

― adam the (abanana), Saturday, March 30, 2019 5:39 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That was explained in the episode. Dr. Burnham has made over 800 trips into the past, trying to stop Control from gaining sentience and eradicating life, but she's never managed to accomplish that. So presumably she's tried to do something in the past that she thinks would stop the genocide from happening, then travelled to the future and still seen it happen, with Michael and everyone else dying. She says that what when she saved the people who ended up on Terralysium, that planet is still thriving 950 year later, so that proved to her that the timeline is mutable, but she hasn't managed to change it in a way that would save her daughter.

Stoked to see how many more person inside another person episodes they can fit into this series. Did they pitch this as Face/Off ... In Space! or something?

lol at how they didn't even bother with continuity -- sometimes ash/georgiou are in important meetings on discovery, sometimes they're on the planet, sometimes they're on the ~dimly lit section 31 ship that has no name or crew worth mentioning despite everyone wearing black~

btw did we establish how georgiou survived this episode, let alone ~really cares~ for our michael

sometimes ash/georgiou are in important meetings on discovery, sometimes they're on the planet, sometimes they're on the ~dimly lit section 31 ship

btw did we establish how georgiou survived this episode, let alone ~really cares~ for our michael

lol yes i realize it is a sci-fi show with technology, which is why i try not to complain about dark matter or spores solving everything or intermittent transporter interference or an AI just taking over a human body and making it impervious to phasers i guess. but the storytelling in this one was just all over the place and i like internal coherence.

i questioned how georgiou survived not leland, but the torpedoing of the place -- it was not immediately evident that she was transported to discovery at the end, but upon review she was presumably no. 4 in the 'four to beam up'.

and yes there have been hints and actions suggesting that she cares about michael, but given her background as terran empress and the depiction of the terran empire, it seems out of character to me (as was starfleet instantly giving her a top role in section 31, of course). anyway, she's an interesting character with possibilities beyond basically anyone else on the show; it would be disappointing to see her merely become michael's (other) special bodyguard

Yeah, I got strong Borg vibes from Leland's assimilation-in-all-but-name. I still hope that DISCO doesn't go down that route, because I'm already tired of the "everything is connected" and "the fate of the universe is at stake." It's a slavish kind of storytelling that feels so unambitious, and when you combine it with how carelessly they plot the arcs, makes me question their narrative abilities.

BTW, did they say why Dr. Burnham couldn't just get back into the suit when they were deactivating the force fields to let the time wormhole take her BACK... TO THE FUTURE?

I dunno, I like the idea this might be where the borg origin story is! It was noted in Voyager/NG that the reason the borg came to be is a bit unclear, IIRC?

(and yes yes, Guinan said theyd been around thousands of years but I dunno maybe the time travel explains that as someone else noted)

apparently the “control is a malignant AI” is from ST books (!) starring Julian Bashir

lol

btw how did mom save burnham when she showed up? did she locally turn back the clock to before she died or something?

To me that was the biggest discrepancy brought up by this episode... Since we now know the timesuit is not some super advanced piece of technology from the future, rather than something made by Federation scientists 20 years ago, how is it able to do all the miraculous things it has done, like save Burnham from death? Or instantly transfer all those people across the galaxy, from WWIII to Terralysium? Or deactivate the entire Ba'ul offensive system? All of that seems far beyond the capabilities of Federation tech.

I wondered about that too -- but then again this is also the franchise where a Voyager probe became sentient and took on the form of a woman.

Since we now know the timesuit is not some super advanced piece of technology from the future, rather than something made by Federation scientists 20 years ago, how is it able to do all the miraculous things it has done

this

Was the eye needle machine explained?

and this

and this: if the red angel wasn't michael burnham, how did it's neurological signature ***!!!EXACTLY!!!*** match hers?

honestly i don't know how any of the action on this show is visible through all the furious handwaving that goes on.

It is still possible that Michael becomes the red angel. Her mom/Kima Greggs didn't know about the signals, and there's still a suit lying around.

Mommy issues seem to be a common idea in second seasons around now -- Kimmy Schmidt and Jessica Jones also did them. I thought the last two episodes were significantly worse than the season before them.

scene where the s31 dude got stabbed in the eyeballs was good

It is still possible that Michael becomes the red angel. Her mom/Kima Greggs didn't know about the signals, and there's still a suit lying around.

tru dat. i stand by the furious handwaving comment though.

actually no, i just watched it again and the suit gets pulled back... to the future! before her mum does too.

You're right. I thought Section 31 had another suit, but I was misremembering the episode before last.

they'll probably find a spare in a cupboard somewhere.

Was the eye needle machine explained?

If Control = Borg is real, then the eye needle thing could be referencing the beginning of First Contact, where Picard's nightmare within a nightmare includes some closeup eye surgery.

intrigued by the 23rd-century technology that allows leland to keep his beard so consistently rugged

Yeah borg use needles/piercing all the time to insert nanoprobes, I'm wondering why I never saw the possible connection to start with.

Ageed I think suit may come back with someone else in it (ie Michael). Otherwise doc's afterthough "oh well with mothers and daughters its REALLY almost a match so you know" was a bit weaksauce!

Ugh, yeah, that was nonsensical, especially since a few episodes ago they said that it was a 100% match.

I think they said it was “a match”

idk this still seems halfassed and woo

I dunno, i’m enjoying this season and it seems mostly full-assed to me. I didn’t notice any specific plot holes or weird bits this week.

I binged this season up to episode 7 over the weekend and I hit burn out - roughly similar to how I hit burnout somewhere in the middle of Matt Smith-era Doctor Who. I've been liking them, but the drama and curse of the puzzle box plot gives everything an overall sameness. I'm not too emotionally invested, but maybe I can just skip ahead - then I never do and just check this thread to see if anything happens.

I thought what made the least sense what Pippa going along with Leland's plan when he was clearly a different person and advocating a course of action (hijacking the data) that was extremely suspicious. I was hoping she'd be a little savvier but she actually went along with it up until Michael's mom happened to say something that sounded a lot like what Leland had said and that tipped her off. Otherwise most of these discrepancies didn't bother me v much.

this last one was a nothing episode. pretty clear that they're remaking terminator 2 now. I am guessing lizard-faced Linus and JETT RENO were last minute additions to the show as they have yet to add anything to the story.

Unless I missed something, one thing that didn't make sense this episode is that they need the time crystal in order to change the future but if Pike takes it he's unable to change his future.

I assume that the time crystal fantasy elements in this episode will be ignored in future episodes.

I actually enjoyed this episode! It's relatively light on plot but I think that's a good thing, because, first, it gives more space to for the episode to work on character development (the Spock/Burny back and forth in the shuttle bay was cute, Reno trying to fix Stamets/Culber), and second, the characters make a lot fewer stupid plot-driven decisions that have been annoying me.

I also really liked Pike's pep talk to himself, the most/best Trek thing the show has done in a while IMO.

yeah

doug jones really sells that swinging-his-arms-behind-his-back thing

I agree that the character bits in this episode was nice, but the whole Time Crystal thing with the mystical test of a character etc. was just too much Doctor Who style science fantasy. It may work in Who, but Trek is still supposed to be sci-fi with some grounding in the reality, so magical minerals with an apparent mind of their own felt way out of place.

Also, for this supposedly super-advanced AI, Control was far too eager to give Burnham and Spock a proper Bond villain monologue, explaining its internations and giving them time to defeat it. If it only intended to kill and assimilate Burnham, why didn't it do so back when they were on the Discovery shuttle, were both of them were within striking distance and unarmed?