Captain Marvel (2019), dir. Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck

on several occasions

looks like none off the magic used in this movie actually exists irl

if you all think it's incredible I missed all this, imagine how I feel.

turn in your FOOM card at the door

(Followed by someone explaining six of them, and Josh going “well, I don’t remember that at all. Therefore [continues to talk about one of those six]”)

I enjoy that you apparently also never remember that this is how every thread goes after you watch something :)

https://i.imgur.com/zRmkOSN.jpg

well, I know that you always correct me, at least I remember that much.

Nah, I tried watching Avengers #21 last night and gave up confused ten minutes in

I am, coincidentally enough, just about to read Kree/Skrull War as part of my suuuuuuuper slow chronological Marvel read-thru project, will let u all know how it compares to this thing (not loving early Roy Thomas, so my hopes...they are not high, but I'm thanking christ that at least it isn't early Gerry Conway).

The Kree/Skrull War arc (which isn't really an "arc" in the sense we speak today, because for most of its duration the actual war is on the background and other plots are happening) is a mess, like most Roy Thomas comics. I would say he's overrated, but I dunno if anyone actually rates him these days? It also has one of the most ridiculous deus ex machina endings I've ever read; I actually thought it was cool when I first read it as a kid, but rereading it as an adult, it's just incredibly silly. I don't think the movie really used anything from that story, beyond the fact that there's a war between the Kree and the Skrull, and Captain Marvel (the original one, not Carol Danvers) is involved?

The movie owes much more to Kelly Sue DeConnick's revamp of Carol/Cap Marvel, and she and artist David Lopez (who designed Carol's new superhero look) did got a dedication in the end credits, unlike Roy Thomas and Gene Colan... I think Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning got a similar credit in the GotG movie, which also makes sense, since even though most of the characters weren't created by them, it's clearly their version of the Guardians that the movie is based on.

Though of course Marvel could and should do more to acknowledge and compensate for the original creators of the characters as well, like with Bill Mantlo and Rocket Raccoon. It's a shame they only do something when threatened with bad publicity, which the Mantlo situation obviously could've caused.

I think you mean artist Jamie McKelvie there, Tuomas - I don't remember if he's in the credits, but it's definitely his design.

she and artist David Lopez (who designed Carol's new superhero look)

I haven’t read any of these, but I’ve been under the impression (from being on message boards with him c. 2001-13) that McKelvie did the modern designs?

xpost, lol

crossref Kieron with whatever that “famous ppl who posted on ILX three times back in the day” thread was recently

Oh, ok. Since Lopez was the original artist in the revamped Cap Marvel book, I thought he also designed the new costume, but I guess it was McKelvie then. My bad.

But anyway, my main point was that even though Thomas technically created Carol Danvers, I dunno how much credit he deserves, because the current version has little to do with the character he created, and much more to with what DeConnick, as well as Claremont, did with her later on. They even included Claremont's amnesia subplot, which defined the character for a long time, even though in the movie it obviously wasn't caused by Rogue.

Heh, occurred to me that another reason (besides clearly not paying attention) that I have trouble following some of the details and beats of these films is that unlike many of you fine folks who can cite Marvel chapter and verse, as a kid in the '80s I was at best a casual comics fan. When you mention Roy Thomas, my first thought is Roy Thomas Baker, and when someone says Gerry Conway I think, the drummer from Fotheringay and Fairport Convention? I'm not sure I knew Captain Marvel at all before this movie, and only loosely knew of the Kree and Skrull by name. I didn't read any comics stuff save for maybe a short run of the X-Men (and spinoffs) and honestly forgettable stuff like the Transformers and GI Joe comics when I was maybe a bit younger. So ... yeah.

I mean...yeah, familiarity with the source material probably doesn't hurt, but they're pretty good about avoiding unnecessary intertextuality. References to the comics which might fly over the heads of casual audience members are only there as in-jokes and easter eggs for the true Zombies. And there's so much reconfiguration of that source material in the translation to the screen that one's familiarity doesn't really pay that many dividends.

(Although it is a nice treat for those in the know when e.g. the identity of Liz Allan's stepfather or the nature of the Skrulls takes a hard right from what we were expecting.)

I would advise those who were previously unfamiliar with the character to go take a peek at the Wikipedia page for Carol Danvers and see how much of a favor the filmmakers did in streamlining her painfully convoluted history 4 u.

Oh along the lines of the undermined expectations I mention, I appreciated that (unless I missed it) they waited for some time before revealing the name of Jude Law's character, which allowed those in the know to go on believing for a while that he was in fact a whole other character with whom they were familiar (and who I believe he had long been reported as portraying in the film). Because had I known, the twist would have announce itself much much earlier.

I think the big difference is that for those in the know, hearing a referenced to Admiral Dingus or whatever might cause you to pay closer attention, but for those not in the know a passing reference to an important character might vanish like a shimmering exposition mirage. I did know the Skrulls were handled differently than they were in the books, as far as I could tell. But I still had to google Ronan the Accuser (like I did with GotG?), and I still don't know why he dresses like that, carries a hammer, acts differently from the other Kree, was helping Thanos, etc. I had no idea who Jude Law's character or characters were supposed to be, in terms of Marvel mythology, other than the leader of her team.

Also Josh (since I'm just going to flood this thread now apparently), I should just note that you're far from alone. My gf has watched every single minute of MCU filmed entertainment alongside me (yes, including all of the shows...well, except for Inhumans, admittedly) and she has the same 'wait, who is that person (who's been prominently featured in five movies previous to this one)?' issues. These details are of more importance to some of us than others, and that's okay, and here's why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAyKJAtDNCw

But I still had to google Ronan the Accuser (like I did with GotG?), and I still don't know why he dresses like that, carries a hammer, acts differently from the other Kree, was helping Thanos, etc. 

Also he was the one Jude Law was talking to in the context of him bombing the shit out of one planet - when Jude Law contacts him later in the context of him bombing the shit out of Earth, the context there is him bombing the shit out of earth.

they should have had him swing his hammer a little in the hologram and say something like “i’m gonna ally with thanos and collect some stones if this kree thing doesn’t work out!”

alternatively he could have shown his double-blades lightsaber to remind us of who he isn’t

the orange cat was everything I hoped he would be. a very fun movie!

I enjoyed this. I get that everyone wants every Marvel movie to be Ragnarok or Black Panther but... not every Marvel movie is going to be Ragnarok or Black Panther. This was solidly Good and I didn't feel like I wasted my money watching it, ergo thumbsup.jpg

agree

I bumped into a friend and his two girls in the store yesterday. I asked how their spring break was, and they said, good, they saw a lot of movies. What did you see? I asked. "Captain Marvel," one of them said. "It was pretty good!" "So tell me the truth," I said. "Would you rather see another Captain Marvel movie, or a movie just about the cat?" "The cat!" they shouted, in unison.

saw it last night. I gotta say that I feel a little disappointed that (SPOILER; altho its unlikely anyone who knows about what I'm about to mention hasn't seen the movie if they intend to) is that the Stan Lee colan creation Mar vell was not only transfigured, but was in fact present only in flashbacks (I protected myself from details of the film so well that I walked in thinking Jude Law was going to be portraying Mar vell). I have an inexplicable fondness for this character, who was not only created to field a dubious copyright claim, but was also worked on by creators who never seemed to know what to do with him. Even Jim Starlin seemed to use him for Thanos-, Eros-, Mentor- and Titan-shit that he was really interested in, and only seemed connect with the character when he got cancer in 1982.

I'm also fond of Carol Danvers, and echo Old Lunch in that the interested really should look at the wikipedia page for the character. The Avengers 200 incident involving Jim Shooter, David Michelinie et al crafting a story involving inter-dimensional rape/stockholm syndrome even made 10 year old me gobsmacked, and the subsequent Avengers annual written by Claremont is one of the more obvious examples of meta/internecine score settling in superhero shit… a few years ago, someone wrote a story about the editorial cluster fuck that resulted in this incident, and its really fascinating.. the lalte 90s Busiek/Perez run of Avengers saw her become an alcoholic, and I thought "hasn't this character gone through enough?"

In any case, from 1963 until the 2000s, Marvel never had a marquee female character a la Wonder Woman—although Jean Grey or Storm or Rogue might fit the bill— and that was a problem. There is no doubt that 15 years ago, Quesada or Jemas or Bendis or whoever decided that they had to fix this, and Carol Danvers, who had tortuous continuity and very very little in the way of genuine grass roots enthusiasm, was going to do it. Again, I like the character, but the Carol Corps as such is trying to will iconic qualities on a character who never had much support, and is thus doing Disney's bidding. Although I think its a good super hero movie, and I am gratified that enough of the character I knew in the 70s and 80s is present.

I thought the Carol Corps was specific to the Kelly Sue DeConnick version from 2012 (prior to which her profile seemed pretty low)?

I like the character but I don't think there's a been single comic with Carol Danvers in the starring role that I've really connected with. Comics-wise, she seems to work best as part of an ensemble.

"I thought the Carol Corps was specific to the Kelly Sue DeConnick version from 2012 (prior to which her profile seemed pretty low)?"

yeah that may be: I should watch what i'm talking about cuz I don't read modern superhero shit.

as far as I remember the carol corps was a grassroots thing kicked off around 2012ish (as Andrew mentioned), partially as a reaction to Marvel's inability to market their own releases in any intelligent way

I mean, it's doing Disney/Marvel a great service by building enthusiasm for a character, but (and with a resigned sigh, here) the fact is that we're in a Marvel character moment and writers/artists pushing that attention toward characters that might actually be interesting or change the landscape seems like a lesser evil

Monica Rambeau > Carol Danvers

was that ever in question?

finally saw this over the weekend, thought it was pretty meh besides samuel l., who was incredible, and the cat, who was a very good cat indeed. i also liked that the directors let mendelsohn keep his natural accent, even though none of the other skrulls sounded like they came from the planet down undah.

i'm not familiar with the comics version of carol, but it feels like she'll suffer from the superman problem, namely that they'll have to nerf her abilities for 3/4 of whatever movie she's in before unleashing the glowing CGI version for the last 1/4 of the movie. maybe the inevitable sequel will match her up against a cosmic-scale villain that would actually pose a challenge.

The inevitable sequel is out later this month, so the chances are pretty good?

im talking captain marvel 2, not MCU 22 or whatever

Oh, you mean Shazam, that's in theaters rn

i mean kazaam

critical support for comrade carol’s compassion for the plight of space palestinians

imho this movie was a good colorful fun time, kinda missing that extra sprinkle of something that would have made me really fall in love with it... whether that was a sparkle of OTT silliness and defiantly geeky world-building (e.g. aquaman, alita) or a slightly more focused emotional arc. there were little bursts of Feelings but they didn't lock together for me. i think it needed another editing pass at the script stage - the Ronan stuff serves no real purpose within the movie that couldn't be served by characters that captain marvel actually knows and has some kind of relationship with. so we end up having to duck away from the main story of the movie for an (admittedly awesome) showdown with his spaceships, and then burn time getting back to the main story, so she actually has two final showdowns with her actual main antagonist. combined with the one-too-many-times gags (e.g. everything to do with the cat) i just had a strong sense that it could have been an unbelievably fun 105-minute movie and was instead a pretty fun 125-minute movie.

and yeah the needle-drops were a problem for me. if you're going to do nostalgia and really create a "woah yeah this feels like it's back then" vibe, do it right: pick one specific summer or at least one specific year and dial into songs a little ways down the chart, ones people remember but which have actually gone away in the interim. the failure to use chumbawamba's "amnesia" is particularly unforgivable. hire me, marvel! i've got the playlists you need!

larson was interesting throughout, very different take than most of these films have for their leads. i guess playing an amnesiac with a seemingly limited interior and personal life for most of the film does present some hurdles to getting to know a character, but it was a nice change of pace from the formulaic "establish that they're brave and plucky, but also smirky and they have a problem with authority" type stuff. the very brief flashbacks to her earlier life were surprisingly effective and made it feel like a real payoff when she does finally meet back with her old friends.

the failure to use chumbawamba's "amnesia" is particularly unforgivable.

fry_take_my_money.jpg

I have literally never heard this song before in my life

(joke writes itself)

seeing sam jackson’s slightly thick-waisted nick fury in endgame really underscored what a great job they did of turning a 70-year-old man into a very creditable fit-looking fortysomething here

i hope she gets to continue being a person out of time, like a captain america who got frozen in the early 90s and is struggling with the idea of pearl jam being played on classic rock stations.

back in the late 90s in my high school comics i had this running idea of a lost predecessor high school that got sealed away in the depths back in 1991. even back then that era seemed super removed (tho of course this has a lot to do with being 18) so there could be a lot of comedy there. as a superhero she has this dope costume, by day she's wearing hypercolor looney tunes jerseys or w/e. but that would require more commitment to the idea of period style than we saw in this movie, which doesn't even bother to give the extras 90s haircuts. the "grunge outfit" gag barely even registered.