immigrants, expatriates, longterm residents in a foreign land, whatever you want to be called

not sure why JJJS got jumped on upthread, I thought he made a good point.

i never thought I felt particularly British until I moved to the US where everything is sort-of similar/familiar but in ways that seem 'off' when you're actually living there. and having to learn whole new systems / ways of doing things from people who have never considered any other way, so find it hard to explain to an outsider!

I'm not particularly overjoyed to be more culturally "British" than I thought but living elsewhere did help me realise what was important to me.

I suppose that's pretty common. I never feel more Canadian than when I'm not in Canada. It really brings home the uncomfortable extent to which I say 'sorry' to people and things, including when the other party is in the wrong.

maybe since i have a limited connection to canada, haven't been back in years, spent some of my childhood and most of my adult life outside of it. and maybe some resentment toward the country? maybe growing up in a cultural wasteland? but now most importantly, most english language media i consume is made in the u.s.a., music/books/tv at least (a few weeks ago i re-read a margaret laurence novel after finding it in a jinbocho bookstore), and i live in a country right now that is more american, superficially at least, than most places in the world, and i have mostly american friends... when i have to answer where i'm from, these days, i feel like answering, as i spit a ropey shot of grizzly wintergreen into a mountain dew can, that i grew up outside traverse city (i hold up my hand, point right around the knuckle of my middle finger) and went to the university of oregon and then turning the conversation to things real americans are discussing like jussie smollett theories and how heroic ilhan omar is.

japan is the ideal country to pretend to be american, too, and many of its subcultures have civil war reenactor-level dedication to sister city american subcultures.

I used to feel like I learned what it's like to be American when I was abroad, but I've been away long enough now that I don't anymore. I get annoyed when people find out I'm American and ask why I'm here, as if the USA is somehow a good place to live. Some here still think that, but their knowledge of the usa is mostly through movies and they seem only to know two cities, Miami and New York, and I have spent like 50 hours total in those two places combined, so it's just more alienating. Fortunately by my (French) accent people usually think I'm Belgian, a much easier situation to pass through.

I totally get where you're coming from (I don't much care about Canadian and Québécois culture, barring a few key exceptions, and for all the US's unforgivable flaws as a nation, Americans have produced so much more stuff that matters to me), and yet I still get mildly flustered whenever anyone assumes I'm from the States. Then again, I've never lived there (nor would I ever, for reasons I outlined upthread), so it makes it easier to play the offended-Canuck-who-manifestly-suffers-from-an-inferiority-complex card.

xp

When I am in France and tell people I am from New York they want to talk about the show Friends. If I say I am from Chile there is always an abrupt and long pause.

xpost I was a little surprised how much Japan is in a love affair with Brooklyn.

i once told someone that i was half-chilean and after a beat they said "pinochet and that?"

At least they knew Pinochet!

I assume most people think (in this order): Pinochet, Andes, wine, Pablo Neruda.

I've had conversations with adult americans that went to college that didn't know pinochet, patagonia, pablo neruda or san padro de atacama. I always figured these were the main range of things chile is known for that I could somehow jostle their recognition of the country.

in britain after pinochet footballers would be the thing people would think of. alexis sanchez, arturo vidal, and then maybe zamorano and salas

with wine they think malbec first as their affordable wine from chile confusing it with argentina. xpost

seb rosenthal

More people have heard of Patagonia the brand in my experience.

I have found that "chilean miners" is the sweet spot for the average american's knowledge of chile.

Try bringing up Bolivia! At best they'll talk about cocaine.

seb rosenthal

― PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Monday, March 11, 2019 9:31 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha yes, this was definitely a reference that hit hard in 90s lanarkshire

When we were gone for a year we rented out our apartment to a chilean footballer. That was not a good idea.

When people find out I'm Romanian it's either 'I have a Romanian friend, do you know him/her?' or something about Ceaușescu/Dracula/Gypsies. The only one I really mind is 'so you speak Russian, right?'

I only knew Patagonia from Madeleine L'Engle's "A Swiftly Tilting Planet" until I went there for a few weeks. Now it makes me think of stunningly beautiful landscapes and tasty beer.

I like to talk to Romanians about the Black Sea coast, to which I have never been but which I believe to a magical fantasy land.

The Black Sea is nice but if you visit Romania (assuming you haven't already) you should prioritize Transylvania, Bucharest and parts of Moldova.

I know that Romania has nice pinot noir, sweet wines and they produce the most wine in central europe.

Keep saying Romania is in 'central Europe' and you'll ingratiate yourself to us in no time. ;)

I'm actually not too keen on our wines but that's because France has spoiled me.

Ha, what do people normally say? I am terrible with geography so everything I know about places comes from either going there or from wine.

The first thing I think of when Romania comes up is the girl I heard about from some backpackers who had just been to Bucharest, she had been bitten by a stray dog and they got the news that she'd died of rabies while I was with them, it was big enough of a trauma for them that I feel like I knew her too (We were in a hostel called The Station Guesthouse in Budapest in I think 2003)

Sure this is not a fair reflection on Romania, sorry, but it put me off going.

Everything that lay behind the Iron Curtain is usually called 'Eastern Europe'. As far as Romania goes, that's fairly accurate (going from West to East, it's one of the last stops before Russia) but it drives certain Czechs and Poles up the wall.

xp

I have been to Bucharest but nowhere else...yet. My wife has traveled more extensively in Romania than I have.

in britain generally everywhere that was in the warsaw pact is referred to as eastern europe, even say the czech republic which is only a bit more easterly than austria

Stray dogs were a massive issue in the 90s and the early 00s. The situation has improved considerably in the interim, although there's still an ongoing tug-of-war between dogcatchers and animal rescue organizations.

2xp

Should you get the chance, Euler, I strongly recommend checking out Brașov, Sibiu and their environs. As well as Moldova's painted monasteries, which tend to be quite gorgeous and quite different from their Western equivalents.

Romania is pretty far East, whereas the Czech Republic sits neatly on top of (most of) Austria, tbf.

I was just looking at train tickets to Mamaia, would be a fun few days of getting there, followed by whatever shenanigans ensue.

I love Romanian food (my ancestry includes Romania though it is hard to document very precisely because of the chaos of the late 19th century when they made their way westward). I want sarmale now. do you know any good Romanian restos in Paris?

They always lump all the central and eastern european countries together for wine studies. But I just double checked and it typically says romania is central europe and this is really just based on geography and not anything else. Although it seems like british wine writers call it eastern europe, ha!

p much all of western europe would say romania is eastern europe iirc.

Isn't the old Mitteleuropa, Czech Republic/Slovakia/Austria/Hungary? It was in football terms. Also it looks that way on a map. I've only ever been to Prague though, but it seemed pretty German to me.

do you know any good Romanian restos in Paris?

I wish I did! There's a tiny Romanian grocery store near the Orthodox Church in the 5ème, but it's not exactly great. I'll look into it during my next stay in Paris.

Mamaia is definitely a lot of fun. My parents were there last year for the first time in ages and weren't disappointed in the least, but I myself haven't revisited it in years. Last time I saw the Black Sea I was at Vama Veche, which has a somewhat more… chaotic reputation.

in britain after pinochet footballers would be the thing people would think of. alexis sanchez, arturo vidal, and then maybe zamorano and salas

― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 11 March 2019 16:30 (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

salas and zamorano first or ur a disgusting savage imo

George Robledo or gtfo.

I could envisage myself living somewhere like Brașov. The only reason I haven’t been back for ages is that I can’t face Luton Airport.

when i have to answer where i'm from, these days,

When people find out I'm Romanian it's either 'I have a Romanian friend, do you know him/her?'

London, Ontario?

once told someone that i was half-chilean and after a beat they said "pinochet and that?"

I'm so accustomed to seeing Chilean produce for sale at the area supermarkets during the off-season that that's the absolute first thing that comes to my mind when thinking of that country. I figured Pinochet is just a part of the OLD Chile back in the bad old days of the "banana republics" and bears no relation to the current state as it stands. Also, since my family's originally from Mexico and THAT comes with its own series of depressing associations, I would rather think of the good that comes from all Latin American countries (even Venezuela's got its rebellious anti-Maduro citizenry as its bright spot).

Romania I always associate with what I read about it in my favorite author Robert D. Kaplan's Balkan Ghosts and Eastward to Tartary, and the fact that the people there speak a Romance language, something highly unusual for that region or indeed any region outside Latin America or the Iberian peninsula.

Hm. London was never my 'dream city', but it's where I ended up. When I moved to the UK in 2007 I thought I'd go for Bristol or Brighton, but London was where the job offer happened. Now I've been here 11 years, pretty much 1/3 of my life. The first five or so years were fine, but seven-year-itch was definitely a thing, and it made me deeply unhappy to be living in London. I thought constantly about going home for a couple years, which wasn't helped by being in a stressful job and going though the grief of the sudden death of a parent 7000 km away. Everything about being in London irritated me: the high cost of living ('I could afford to buy an entire house in Canada, grumble grumble'); the long travel times to see/do anything interesting ('At home everything's within a 30 minute journey, grumble grumble'); how hard it was/is to make friends ('All my friends are at home, having fun without me, grumble grumble').

I ended up getting a much better job, which drastically improved my relationship with the city (I do research on city stuff so I get to travel to all sorts of weird and wonderful place in London). And in the last few years my own neighbourhood has exploded with stuff so I have more to do within a 30 minute walk. It's good for now, but London is not a place I want to grow old, and Brexit is a bummer... but I don't know where else to go.

Oh, I'm well aware of how every place out there has its setbacks and that London would be a pricey city to live in, though one could also say the same about every similarly sized global metropolis and I spent a considerable amount of my life as a hardcore Anglophile who looked at London as The Ultimate Goal. Also, yes, being employed somewhere that gives one extreme dissatisfaction would put the damper on one's living ANYWHERE, regardless of loction, so I'm glad you were able to find a better place of employment. However, in spite of the total shambles that is Brexit and the current lack of leadership from any of the political parties in Britain, I would absolutely take living there any day of the week over living in Drumpf's goddamned America, especially since he and his minions are targeting my people. I'm lucky to live where I do in that we're the majority and have significant political power on a local level, but it's a terribly boring place to live. I mean, the most exciting thing that's happened recently is that we finally got a local Ikea in town last month! Big fucking whoop. Additionally, it really burns me up whenever I see people who live in these huge, exciting cities leaving online comments chastising others for moving to those same cities and saying that those transplants should just stay where they are and create a local "scene" where they live; inside my head I'm thinking, "Oh yes, let's all just magic up some cosmopolitan excitement out of fucking nowhere! Then we can get around to pulling flying unicorns and world peace out of thin air!" The city where I live already HAS people trying very hard to turn it into something better but, in spite of its massive population growth since 1990 (from about 850,000 to almost 2 million and growing), it's still the same, boring backwater it's always been. Living in a huge metropolis with endless cultural options would be a dream for me (especially if I can make new, POSITIVE memories instead of the awful ones I have locally) and if it happens to be in the country I've adored since I was four, all the better.

I've lived 80% of my life outside of the place I was born, changing country every 4-5 years until I settled by accident here in Belgium, where I've now been living 15 years. The constant moving and the idea that I could I just reinvent myself in the next place gave me a paralysing tendency to over-romanticize places, imagined or half-remembered, instead of trying to ingrain myself wherever I was and actually build something. In recent years, I've found that starting a family has "cured" me of that since it's made it obvious that my life would essentially stay the same from now on, whatever the place. Worrying about school runs and weekend playdates leaves little space for longing for the elusive atmosphere of a foreign place.

pomenitul, you'll be happy to know that a research paper topic that was just released today for an advanced wine thingey is the future of Romanian wine in export markets.

Hah, I'll drink to that. I'm not crazy about the stuff tbh, having been spoiled on French wine, but there is much, far too much I haven't tasted yet.

Hmm… I said the exact same thing upthread, more or less.

it's ok, I feel strongly about that sentiment too.