I found it very movingjust in terms of the sheer work itself, it’s a pretty incredible undertaking
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 March 2019 22:02 (nine months ago) link
on the one hand symmetry would require me to wait for the third one to come out in paperback, even, but on the other hand I don't think my copies of the first two match all that much even, so whatever
― moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 6 March 2019 22:11 (nine months ago) link
the bbc production of this was not too bad for them
― calzino, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 22:28 (nine months ago) link
― mark s, Thursday, 7 March 2019 01:20 (nine months ago) link
guess I should read this
― akm, Thursday, 7 March 2019 06:06 (nine months ago) link
It’s probably a con but like any good con artist she makes you feel so good about buying into the con
― moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 7 March 2019 06:16 (nine months ago) link
actually that gif has good reason to be posted for more than the very good purposes of razzing calz :D
the scene in the series -- anne is dead, crom arrives to see the king who is gleeful and opens his arms in a delighted hug of triumph -- isn't in the book: in the book, instead, we see henry serene as he prepares to marry jane, and gloomy as he tell crom he, he henry, may now be too old to have a strong boychild, per something he read in plato (odd source for such wisdom tho i guess in this instance plato will prove correct)
it's a capper on the viewpoint of the series, of course: who is bad here? henry is bad. and this delivery of his desire -- even as it also enacts revenge on a bunch of v awful ppl who crossed crom and mocked cranmer, plus anne who he feels more ambivalent about -- of course puts crom right in the cheery bearhug of the king's badness.
one of the devices at work is bodysize: damien lewis is tall and broad, even if his character is changeable and basically whiny -- here's when he's happy he's also terrifying and horrible. unlike the historical cromwell (per holbein) and the book cromwell (per mantel), mark rylance is no physical bulk to be reckoned with.* rylance plays cromwell wary, watchful, memory-full, when alone melancholy. i think if he dominated more physically and on-screen, we'd likely take against him more. but as i say, the tv show wants the king as villain
the book is more this: while full of lovely things including (sometimes) love, the world is bad and to make it better, we too much if we can also do bad things. the king is less a villain, more a force of nature channelled by duty and fear and possibly medical conditions**, with almost random breakouts into friendship or joy. (he is certain written as kind) *in the book version of the joust scene and henry seemingly dead, when norfolk comes at cromwell, cromwell simply stand firm and lets the other bounce off him **reading round to discover what these were i wz delighted to discover there is a school of historian thought that argues he was suffering from SCURVY
― mark s, Thursday, 7 March 2019 10:53 (nine months ago) link
In the books: Just as the hero is no hero, no villain is a true villain I think; what seems clearly and consistently bad (in Crom's eyes as harbinger of modernity?) is the blithe institutional acceptance, as necessities, of torture and executions, separate and especially in combination: Cromwell's attendance of a witch burning as a child; "It is true there is a rack at the Tower. No one withstands it. No one."; "the law demands the full traitor's penalty, the short spin in the wind and the conscious public disembowelling, a brazier alight for human entrails. It is the most horrible of all deaths, pain and rage and humiliation swallowed to the dregs, the fear so great that the strongest rebel is unmanned before the executioner with his knife can do the job".
All this while the prose is exquisite.
― anatol_merklich, Thursday, 7 March 2019 13:52 (nine months ago) link
all these references to crom are making me want a wolf hall / conan the barbarian crossover
― invited to an unexpected ninja presentation (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 7 March 2019 13:57 (nine months ago) link
dude it already exists:
― mark s, Thursday, 7 March 2019 15:45 (nine months ago) link
ok so i started a place of greater safety last week and it's soooo good. i understand what people are saying upthread about the cromwell series' restriction of perspective helps focus the narrative a bit, but she's just such an engaging writer and so good at drawing all these characters that i'm enjoying the sprawl. even though that sprawl does make me less likely to sit down and read 100 pages at a time.
― to halve and half not (voodoo chili), Monday, 15 April 2019 15:02 (eight months ago) link
Book 3 coming in 2020!
― i think ur a controp (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 12:25 (six months ago) link
HarperCollins said the novel would offer “a defining portrait of predator and prey, of a ferocious contest between present and past, between royal will and a common man’s vision: of a modern nation making itself through conflict, passion and courage”. It also confirmed that the novel would be adapted for television by the BBC, following the Bafta-winning adaptation of Wolf Hall starring Mark Rylance as Cromwell. Peter Straughan will write the adaptation, and Peter Kosminsky will direct. A film exploring the life and work of Mantel herself, from Oxford Films, is also due out next March.
― i think ur a controp (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 12:27 (six months ago) link
― don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 16:54 (six months ago) link
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 19:34 (six months ago) link
Fantastic news, I’ve just been rereading the first 2.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 20:29 (six months ago) link
such good news
― estela, Wednesday, 22 May 2019 20:58 (six months ago) link
eat your heart out George RR Martin
― don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Wednesday, 22 May 2019 21:00 (six months ago) link