Should Marijuana be legalised?

I mean it's easier to sneak into places than it is to sneak in alcohol. It is also harder to gauge someone's level of inebriation.

This is total tangent, but a senior at my son's high school was recently stabbed to death by two middle school kids in an apparent botched Juul deal. Point being, there's probably a lot about teens today that we don't quite get either.

Man, my daughter complains about kids in the bathroom Juuling all the time.

I mean it's easier to sneak into places than it is to sneak in alcohol.

Uh... it's super easy to sneak alcohol into places and it doesn't smell. Vodka + Gatorade, the drink of functioning high school alcoholics.

my senior prom was cut short an hour early when some kids puked all over the hilton waikoloa village's bathroom after overindulging in what they'd snuck past the staff in salad dressing bottles

maybe they OD's on thousand island dressing? I would.

zesty

Josh: Convince me.
Everyone: These arguments convince us.
Josh: I still need more convincing.

Me: Think about the options as long as you need and if you still aren't convinced, well, OK. Be that way.

There's no guarantee that marijuana will never harm anyone in any way, or lead to some situation you find undesirable. Wanting that is like crying for the moon. Figure out where the least harm lies. That's the only approach that can deal with this kind of issue.

The results we are getting with our current approach do massive amounts of harm in my view. How about you convince me the harms you fear are worse?

Weed stores have been open in Washington for what feels like forever now, and the worst problem they’ve caused is gentrification

my senior prom was cut short an hour early when some kids puked all over the hilton waikoloa village's bathroom after overindulging in what they'd snuck past the staff in salad dressing bottles

― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, February 26, 2019 8:17 PM (eleven minutes ago)

look, I said I was sorry

i was ready to go tbh

Possible link to increase in pedestrian deaths:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/pedestrian-deaths-marijuana.html

decrease in pedestrian lives tho

#pedestrianlivesmatter

i don't quite understand the argument JiC is making. in states where it's legalized, it's regulated. you have to be over a certain age to buy it (like cigarettes & alcohol) in many states, it's illegal to be under the influence of weed while you drive (like alcohol and many other drugs). so what's the objection?

if you don't want your babysitter to be high, you probably also don't want your babysitter to be drunk. so...do you ask your babysitter to please not get drunk before you leave the house for the evening? or do you try to find a babysitter that knows not to get drunk while they're looking after your kids?

i think JiC is concern trolling?

Maybe a little. I just mean for people arguing it is safe, then how can you simultaneously concede it's, say, not safe enough that you want someone in a position of authority using it? Yes, no more so than alcohol, but that's more an argument for the abolition of alcohol than it is for the legalization of cannabis.

How about you convince me the harms you fear are worse?

I think that's kind of silly and circular (not you, just the argument). As I understand it, ridiculous and arbitrary restrictions have made it impossible to freely study cannabis and its effects, longterm or medical or otherwise. But the contradiction I pointed out almost negates that: everyone knows alcohol is overwhelmingly bad for society, but ... so what, we've decided it's not going anywhere. The benefits to legal cannabis seem ancillary: decriminalize and it helps people legally, tax it and it helps the government financially. But the product itself? Its benefits and effects are more nebulous and inconsistent and anecdotal, as far as I've read.

Anyway, like I and you said, there's no "convincing" me. Legalization is the clear direction we are heading in. But I'll be the first to concede I don't know the legal ramifications or regulations at all. For example, how does regulation and enforcement in, say, Amsterdam compare to Washington? I have no idea. Are we (US) generally more legal? More strict? The same? How is Canada handling it? No idea, it's all so ad hoc. But I'll say it will be and is a fascinating experiment to live through.

everyone knows alcohol is overwhelmingly bad for society

the sources of alcohol have been symbiotic with society for so many millennia, changing us and being changed, that i'd honestly have no idea where to begin evaluating the quality of the relationship, but i'm confident no one needs to call the cops

The answers to all those questions are freely available if you really cared to know them.

everyone knows alcohol is overwhelmingly bad for society

Everyone does not know this.

xpost

Yes, not everyone, but I thought the cost (literal and figurative) to society, from alcoholism to violence to drunk driving deaths, was pretty well known. Maybe not!

The answers to all those questions are freely available if you really cared to know them.

How about a link or two? I did a quick search for Colorado vs. Amsterdam, and every article (for good reason) was from 2014.

I just mean for people arguing it is safe, then how can you simultaneously concede it's, say, not safe enough that you want someone in a position of authority using it?

Tandem sky-diving is safe, but I don't want the President issuing executive orders while HALO jumping.

This is a foolish argument. No one is going to say pot or alcohol are completely harmless. They are just not harmful enough to toss people in jail over.

No argument!

.

If you hired a babysitter for your kid, would you rather she be stoned or sober? Would you care?

the amount of everyone's time josh in chicago has wasted is like a nerdstrom poindexter x 1000 but everyone likes and puts up with him anyway because he's like a dad and stuff i guess

that's not cool.

No dadshaming on ilxor.com

I barely see students smoking cigs on campus anymore

I saw a neighborhood teen, who I was familiar with because he had bullied my son in middle school, walking down the street smoking a cigarette the other day. The sight put me in this really weird headspace where I wasn't sure whether to be grossed-out by him hacking on a Marlboro or happy that he wasn't Juuling like some fucking nerd all the other teenagers I see around town.

As an anti-inflammatory, is it even as effective as ibuprofen?

btw ppl with crohn's shouldn't take ibuprofen as it can exacerbate intestinal bleeding

yup. acetaminophen only.

Iirc the current line is that ibuprofen isn't very good for anyone, and should be seriously limited. In fact, also iirc, that ibuprofen is added to many Rx opiates to intentionally make them unpleasant in large doses.

Same with acetaminophen though.

And aspirin has its problems as well.

I ate an edible a couple of days ago to coincide with my menstrual cramping, nausea, back pain. They should pack that in every tampon box.

Do guys ever use turmeric capsules for inflammation?

Do *you guys

I know a bunch of people here do fresh curcumin or make golden milk/tea.

the neurological element of marijuana impact the pain process above and beyond the anti-inflammatory benefits

How about a link or two? I did a quick search for Colorado vs. Amsterdam, and every article (for good reason) was from 2014.

Oregon's Measure 91, November 2014:
https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Documents/Measure91.pdf

Revised statutes, 2017 (passed 2018):
https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors475B.html

Canada's Cannabis Act, 17/10/2018:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C-24.5.pdf

Curcumin is (or can be in certain formulations or something) a COX-2 inhibitor like ibuprofen or Aleve for pain relief but IIRC that also means it has the downsides of those related to heart issues.

btw ppl with crohn's shouldn't take ibuprofen as it can exacerbate intestinal bleeding

live in the right state and it's easy to forget that cannabis isn't legal everywhere

josh iirc you even posted at length about a cannabis tour through western states you took in the last year or so?

The results we are getting with our current approach do massive amounts of harm in my view. How about you convince me the harms you fear are worse?

^This!! Case of "the devil you know..."

Yeah, sort of. I mean, it's not why we were there, but when you're there it's pretty visible (though nowhere near as ubiquitous as alcohol). I mostly went to a couple of places out of curiosity to see how it works. The craziest is when you go on some drive through the forests in crazy militia land and there's a dispensary sitting in the middle of bigfoot country.

If I had to liken it to anything it's, I dunno, porn barns on the side of the road. It's not something you (or I at least) really think about, but they're there, and you pass them, and you pass billboards for them and stuff. Then you go into the cities and the porn barn as been replaced by a fence porn boutique with higher prices or whatever but, I assume, the same stuff. And they have their clientele, enough to stay in business, but you never really see people going in and out. The cannabis places I poked my head into in Oakland in another trip out there were pretty quiet, kind of like liquor stores with more giggling (not chemically induced, mostly lots of couples giggling at the novelty, the same, come to think of it, that you might find in a porn barn or shop.)

idk man from what I can tell the weed stores in Seattle are frequented by people going there to buy weed

idk man (haha -- i also started my post with "idk man" and i am leaving it there) -- not all vice is created equal. no one is prescribed "highway porn barn" for any medical purposes I'm aware of. If you are coming at the idea of legalization from a rubbernecking perspective, it's going to seem different than if you are a core customer.

crazy militia land and there's a dispensary sitting in the middle of bigfoot country.

Rednecks toke up, too. Just like Wm. F. Buckley was interested, there are plenty of cowboys with as much curiosity as he had. It's just that now they can do it legally in Oregon, Washington, California and Canada. Even in bigfoot country.