be it resolved that the ILM EOY tracks poll institute a one-track-per-artist-per-rollout limit

pretty definitive

as it should be

the world's greatest deliberative body

people were asking about this / arguing again so I figured I'd give it a bump so ppl could be reminded how definitive this was

really not TOO many repeats this year, but two rock acts taking up over a tenth of the rollout was...a choice

One batch was from the first album in forever from a beloved cult figure who (no need to say the rest);

The other batch were from two separate albums by the best active rock band;

Both somewhat unique situations.

I could get behind the idea of prohibiting voters from voting for more than two (2) tracks from a single album, as discussed in the rollout thread (but not the measure proposed in this poll).

(FWIW, I voted for one (1) track by each artist — their respective tracks which placed highest)

I'm always a little disappointed because I would like to see more of my favorites show up, but the EOY tracks poll is what it is, a reflection of the year

which is great

the best active young rock band

^gonna quickly amend this, to avoid conflict

i don't think voters are loading their ballots with 5 tracks from the same album, everyone's just voting for a different 2

The thing with album artists is that there's little agreement on consensus tracks, so lots of stuff gets nominated and no one really knows whether the tracks they choose are the ones anyone else is voting for. That uncertainty incentivizes voting for more than one track if you are hoping to hit upon one other people like as well.

i do think purple mountains is an unusual circumstance that shouldn't change our opinions, i'm still a nay

if people want to see more variety from the lower end of the poll i'd rather just extend the countdown to 100 than remove duplicate artists. the three billie eilish tracks this year are all pretty different in vibe. i'm certainly not that thrilled on five different purple mountains tracks placing but i think that's the first time it's been this bad? was the previous record 4 crj tracks in 2015?

i'd be ok with limiting ballots to a maximum of two tracks by the same artist which would surely help a little bit but i'm not sure how much. there were a total of 44 votes for purple mountains tracks, but only from 24 voters, so most purple mountains voters were voting for two of their songs at least. this isn't the case for big thief (29 voters/41 votes) to the same degree or billie eilish (37 voters/39 votes) basically at all.

I am a big fan of the idea of expanding out to 100. fuck tradition

looking through the past results there was also 4 1975 tracks in 2018, 4 beyonce tracks in 2016 and 2013, and 4 taylor tracks in 2014, but none seem to have such a large number of voters voting for multiple tracks like purple mountains did this year which seems to be the driving force behind their record 5 tracks.

Change the results to only show the song title and not the artist. No words are repeated that way

you guys know that there are no cash prizes awarded to the winners, right?

use quadratic voting

I don't think any changes need to be made to the poll itself.

However, it would be good to have a friendly reminder during voting that it's best to adopt a "one track per artist" policy in your list, and people who insist on voting for 4 or 5 tracks from a single album should be sternly tutted at.

Yeah, limit the number of votes in a ballot to a maximum of two per artist. If someone wants to vote for more, just vote for the album, don't stuff the tracks poll full of album tracks.

Like, who care what's the 5th best track on some rock album? IMO the tracks poll is great for discovering new artists and/or artists who don't have albums, or the albums aren't strong enough to make in in the polls but some individual track is. Having 4 or 5 songs from an album in the track countdown and then the same album in the album countdown is just boring.

Maybe if five tracks place from a single album, that album then gets banned from the album rollout the following week

xp Exactly. Personally I do not care for albums, let alone rock albums, and it feels like they are spreading out of the albums list to the tracks list. Previous examples of multiple placements were mostly from pop albums with a lot of singles. Nothing against a good album track from a patchy LP of course!

saer profoundly OTM. LOL.

This really seems to be a non-problem. If one is bothered that Purple Mountains appeared more than once, then just look up the 78-81 poaitions and pretend the following rounded out the bottom of the 77:

Jenny Hval - High Alice
CZ Wang & Neo Image - Just Off Wave
Charli XCX ft. Sky Ferreira - Cross You Out
Rapsody ft. GZA & D'Angelo - Ibtihaj

Once you start limiting the number of nominations or ballot slots per artist you're forcing voters into strategic voting anyway (in the sense of voting for things that are not really their favourites), just at an earlier stage in the process. Alternatively, fans just decide not to bother as their preferred track is absent.

Also, in the case of Purple Mountains, it's worth bearing in mind that the lower three tracks were at #50 or lower and attracted a very modest 5, 6 or 7 votes each. One hardly needs a grand conspiracy to achieve those sorts of numbers. Maybe, just maybe it really was an album with a high number of tracks with moderately broad appeal.

I would rather the rollout discussion was about 77 different artists, than have a few acts taking up multiple places when they’re going to appear next week anyway when we ‘ll have basically the same conversation about them all over again

^ Yes, exactly.

Once you start limiting the number of nominations or ballot slots per artist you're forcing voters into strategic voting anyway

Yes, if people cannot bring themselves to vote strategically then they should be at least gently encouraged to do that.

A non-problem if there ever was one imo. I mostly care about the albums list, not tracks. But if a tracks poll is: 'vote for your favourite tracks', then let people vote for their favourite tracks! Imposing restrictions is just silly.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It sounds like what people really crave is a 77 Best Artists Of The Year poll. Creating such a thing makes more sense than trying to awkwardly shoehorn a 'favourite tracks' poll into that role.

With the likes of Big Thief and Sault releasing multiple LPs in 2019 it's possible the albums poll will also fail to provide cues for the discussion of exactly 77 artists this year.

Nobody is asking for a top 77 artists. The point is that this is basically a singles poll (with album tracks included because what even is a single in 2020) and people are nominating 4 or 5 tracks from the same LP.

It's not a singles poll though, it's a tracks poll.

It's not a singles poll though, it's a tracks poll.

In theory, yes, but in practice the majority of tracks on these lists have always been singles or other indidividually released tracks, and the biggest exception has always been album tracks from rock albums.

Keep it the way it is. Any restrictions should be on individual ballots - a two per artist limit shouldn't be too controversial. I voted for Wild Time, not Movies or Andromeda, and I'd be unhappy to have my choice excluded on a bogus technicality. If an artist released several amazing songs and enough different people vote for enough of them, shouldn't we celebrate the songs rather than ignore their existence? As has been said, this is a tracks poll, not an artists poll

The ~problem~ here still ultimately seems that other people vote for tracks you don't like. If you feel one artist is hogging up places in the 77, then look at places 85-78 when it's done or something. Or rally around and get ppl to vote otherwise in the nominations thread.

Restrictions should be self-imposed only imo.

xp exactly.

Any restrictions should be on individual ballots

Yes, this is exactly what is being proposed

I don't agree with that. If someone wants to vote for 11 Purple Mountains songs, they've my blessing (even though I think it's silly to do so).

see here:

it would be good to have a friendly reminder during voting that it's best to adopt a "one track per artist" policy in your list, and people who insist on voting for 4 or 5 tracks from a single album should be sternly tutted at.

How about this: limit the rollout to one track per release? So if an artist had a prolific year and released two non-album singles, one EP, and two albums, each can be represented by a single track. But if they only released one album and nothing else, the album can't be represented by more than one track.

Yeah that's probably best xpost

No, Tuomas

How about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM5W7Xn7FiA

The ~problem~ here still ultimately seems that other people vote for tracks you don't like. If you feel one artist is hogging up places in the 77, then look at places 85-78 when it's done or something.

The problem is that places 78-85 aren't rolled out individually and discussed, which is the main point of the whole excercise. Otherwise the entire vote results could just be posted all at once.

Voting for the other version of No Limits where instead of the rap you just get "TECHNO TECHNO TECHNO TECHNO"

If an artist released several amazing songs and enough different people vote for enough of them, shouldn't we celebrate the songs rather than ignore their existence?

Eh we’re not running a museum here, I’d rather the list functioned as a place to be exposed to lots of different new stuff

Voting for the other version of No Limits where instead of the rap you just get "TECHNO TECHNO TECHNO TECHNO"

Isn't this U96's "Das Boot"?

[/i]If an artist released several amazing songs and enough different people vote for enough of them, shouldn't we celebrate the songs rather than ignore their existence?[/i]

Eh we’re not running a museum here, I’d rather the list functioned as a place to be exposed to lots of different new stuff

Exactly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exLG0XWM_Dg

This was the version they released in the UK for some reason

Brb voting for both versions. (I did not know that btw, odd!)

Saying the word 'no' twelve times into someone's head, that could have a BAD effect.

Technically thirteen

there were a total of 44 votes for purple mountains tracks, but only from 24 voters, so most purple mountains voters were voting for two of their songs at least.

Well, no. That's an average of 1.83.

Half of those 24 have said they voted in various places. And this sample accounts for *just* short of half of the votes. We know "Margaritas at the Mall" received five votes in total, so the maximum possible number of people voting for every single nomination is TWO! It may be just the one for all I know.

Seven of these twelve voted for just one track each. And there's no overlap at all between many of the ballots. I'm even more convinced that this is not an actual problem.

Voter            SNOW   GONE   NIGHT  DARK   MARG
a                X      .      .      .      .  
b                X      .      .      .      .  
c                .      .      X      .      .  
d                X      .      .      .      X
e                X      X      X      X      X
f                X      .      .      .      .
g                .      .      .      X      X
h                X      .      .      .      .
i                X      .      X      .      .
j                X      X      .      .      X
k                .      .      X      .      .
l                .      X      .      .      .