The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

I keep playing this, and it's fun, but I feel like I'm making no real progress. I mean, I guess I'm getting better - I killed one of those big troll monster things - but I'm still mostly just wandering around and hunter/gathering/replacing weapons.

That actually does serve as progress, the quality of randomized weapon drops increases as you break more weapons. From what I understand.

what is progress? is it winning the game? in that case you need to get back to the storyline/main missions . is it getting stronger? then you have to get back to the shrines. you're right that wandering around randomly is not going to lead to progress.

Progress in the sense that there does not seem to be any clear directive. I don't really feel like I'm working toward anything specific, and the open world environment means I can avoid missions as easily as I can pursue them, but it gives no clear indication which missions are important and which are distractions. For that matter, I'm reluctant to go for the main storyline/missions, as I understand them, if I am woefully underprepared or underpowered. But so far the game has given me no hints as to what underprepared or underpowered even looks like. For example, are certain enemies difficult because I am underpowered/equipped, or are they just ... really difficult? I've gotten hints to pursue at least a couple of the divine beasts, for another example, but there has been given no indication I'm remotely ready to do so without a certain set of armor, or certain number of hearts and stamina, or specific potions or whatever. And I'm reluctant to try if it just means breaking or using up all my weapons.

The rock monsters, for example. Thus far I've mostly avoided them, because 1) I can and 2) fighting them seems slow and fruitless at this point. And that's even assuming the rewards are worth the effort. The giant sleeping troll I woke up and killed, for example, I honestly can't remember what that earned me. Or if I should even care.

i will suggest a direction: go take down a divine beast. you can do it with whatever weapons or items you have right now. if it's too hard, note what was too hard about it, and come back later. (this approach is pretty much identical to what it was like to play the original NES Zelda)

if you try to take it down and find it too hard, you will have lost about 20-30 minutes and will maybe break a couple weapons. you can find new weapons!

The giant sleeping troll I woke up and killed, for example, I honestly can't remember what that earned me. Or if I should even care.

you should not care. i think i only fought the rock monsters like three times, and i stopped fighting lynels because i didn't care. i'd rather be soaring with my paraglider and shooting arrows in slow motion (give that a shot sometime if you haven't already). other people love fighting lynels and seek them out, setting their own goal to beat all of them. you don't get any special reward for doing so (i don't think), it's just what they want. that's why BotW rules - there is no wrong way to play it, other than stressing out about how to play it

otm

otm

for a certain kind of person, the primary goal of zelda is to figure out the funniest ways to use octo balloons to do zany stunts in the open fields

I am not that person.

I will say this: there is absolutely nothing stressful about this game. The flip side is that all my victories thus far seem like small victories.

heh, i am not that person either, although i will not close off the possibility of becoming that person in the future

i was probably overreading some stress in what you wrote - it just sounds like you're constantly worrying about breaking weapons and doing the right thing or doing the wrong thing or what order you're supposed to be doing things. it's pretty cheesy, but the guiding kind of phrase for the game is something like "what if i tried X", where X is whatever the hell you want it to be

I'm not worried about breaking shit, I'm just annoyed at having to replace it. If all weapons break and all need to be replaced but they're easy to find or replace, then ... what is even the point? It's just extra walking around looking for shit. Same thing with arrows so far. I get the speciality arrows might be harder to come by, but ... that is disincentive to use them in the off chance they *are* are to come by, and I'll want or need them later. And if they're easy to find or replace, like regular arrows, then the inventory depletion is annoying, it just adds time doing busywork. Likewise, say, the lightning so far. The weather shit is fun, but ... kind of annoying. If lighting is about to kill you ... so what? You just come back after you die. There is no reason to drop your metal stuff. And the rain, the rain makes it hard to climb, that seems to be the big difference, but all that means is you have to wait it out. The blood moon thing keeps happening, but hasn't affected my gameplay one bit yet. And so on. (And by annoyed I don't mean aggrieved, it's fun, but it makes a it feel more like a farming simulator or something rather than an action RPG game.)

Per difficulty or being overpowered, another example are the guardians. Out in the wild they seem impossible to destroy, but is that because they are difficult or because I am underpowered? Or both? And unlike the giant monsters I can't avoid them. So is it a matter of problem solving around them, or is it impossible before I get the guardian killing arrow or whatever.

I've now come across three in-game bros trying to get me to shield surf, but I have no desire.

The world design of this is pretty cool, I'll admit. I like being able to climb or throw or otherwise mess with just about every aspect of the environment, that keeps things interesting.

I've now come across three in-game bros trying to get me to shield surf, but I have no desire.

i'll give you a small hint about this, so consider this a *SPOILER alert*

...

these bros are trying to help you figure out how to get to one of the divine beasts

or at least, if these are desert bros, that's what they're trying to do

** END SPOILER alert**

If lighting is about to kill you ... so what? You just come back after you die. There is no reason to drop your metal stuff.

you don't need to drop your metal stuff, you just need to equip something else that's not metal. lightning is kind of cool because it forces you to suddenly switch up how you're playing

xpost Nope! One at the top of the cold mountain, another ... near a forest up north? No desert surf bros yet. Or at least, I haven't hit any place where I was I'm danger of overheating, just a desert-like valley, I think. And that's what I mean, though! I hear "shield surfing," I know what that is and don't want to do it, so skip it. But if that silly sounding thing is something I should be paying attention to, then what to make of the dozens of side-quests and interactions and mini missions? Are some of them essential to beating the divine beasts or something else similarly important? When every person you talk to wants you to do some shit, how are you supposed to know what shit is important? Or am I supposed to make my way to this desert divine beast and realize, oh, that guy I encountered hours and hours earlier in some place I can't remember, what he said was important!

xpost But why? Getting struck by lightning might kill you, but other than that ... it just kills you. Then you come back. Why would I care if I get struck by lightning? Is there some Lightning World coming up where if I don't learn to drop my metal I'll not be able to beat the boss or something?

you've got the main quest markers on your quest log, if you want to do the main quest follow those (it's probably telling you something something zora's domain right now). everything else is optional.

xpost But why? Getting struck by lightning might kill you, but other than that ... it just kills you. Then you come back. Why would I care if I get struck by lightning? Is there some Lightning World coming up where if I don't learn to drop my metal I'll not be able to beat the boss or something?

― Josh in Chicago

do you come back? i thought you had to restore from your last save or something, isn't that why it autosaves constantly?

in the case of the desert divine beast, someone will be like "why hay there lil friend, i bet if you SHIELD SURF TOWARD THE DESERT you might be able to get up on that there big old DIVINE BEAST IN THE DESERT, is what the legends say, toodle-loo!". they might not do that until after you talk to a couple key characters inside the town or whatever, but when something is absolutely required to do another thing in this game (a rare occurrence, actually), they will make it abundantly clear and you will not miss it. remember how you had to do a few shrines in order to get the paraglider so you could get off the great plateau, and old dude in the cloak told you all about it? it'll be like that

i admit i don't don't understand why you need some sort of in-game justification for avoiding getting struck by lightning. i understand botw gives one a significant degree of latitude in how to play it, but i mean, "why should i avoid getting hit by lightning?" is perhaps a more philosophical question than the game is able to address, because ludically that question translates to "why should i avoid pain and seek pleasure?"

as the famous zen kōan asks, "why shouldn't you avoid getting hit by lightning?"

omg Josh I'm starting to really wonder if this game is for you :/ The very meat of WHY this game is fun seems baffling to you somehow.

Might I recommend you google "things I wish I'd known before I started playing BOTW" and see what tips you find. Dont be afraid to cheat a little with tips and walkthrus.

Oh, and READ EVERYTHING and TALK TO EVERYONE. It irks me watching people play all kinds of game who go "ugh *skip* when they find a tome or a notice on the wall or a NPC to talk to, and then later whinge "how was I supposed to know the gem of Esterbane was north of the tavern of tarts!?" when a map on the wall in the last village literally leads you there.

just make sure to use the Clear Vision rune while reading the map, or else you end up in the cavern of farts, a high level area

hahahhaa

idk i can see why this game's appeal might be more opaque if you're ignorant to the entire past 2 generations of railroaded adventure games and busywork open worlds that it's rejecting

handholdy maybe the word im looking for not railroaded

like go back and play twilight princess and remember just how long you have to play at the start before the game gives you any real agency

I've totally watched the what to know before breath of the wild video(s). I've used hints when I've gotten stuck. I know what I'm doing, generally speaking. What I didn't really know was how long it would take to do that, or how many lines of goofy dialogue I would have to sit through. there seems to be an inordinate amount of stuff in this game that takes time just for the sake of taking time. if that is indeed a large part of the game, then yeah, maybe it's not for me. there are definitely aspects of it that I love, though, which is one reason why I didn't throw in the towel hours ago.

and yeah, I missed all the bad things that this game apparently corrects, so if there's something about this game I don't enjoy, even if it is much better than the previous twenty years worth of bad things then this game nonetheless still becomes the bad thing.

At least it gives you some training tutorials and things - lately Ive been playing some much older games and the way you're dropped in it with no explanation is doing my head in.

Brought to you by "how the fuck does Sonic the Hedgehog work exactly I feel old"

If all weapons break and all need to be replaced but they're easy to find or replace, then ... what is even the point? It's just extra walking around looking for shit.

i don’t mean to denigrate your point, but this describes games

xp old games came with manuals and expected you to at least read the page that showed the controls

Ha yes thats true. Unfortunately Ive purchase "50 AWESOME RETRO SEGA GENESIS GAMES WOOO" for the Switch and it came with bupkiss.

xpost I mean, and I'm going to once again use Dark Souls as an example, that in that game you can more or less finish the game with the first weapon you pick, which you can upgrade any number of fun ways (and repair as necessary). There are cool rare weapons, easy to find weapons, all sorts of weapons, most you never use and many you end up with piles of. Some have advantages, some don't, but few (iirc) just break and force you to fight with something else. I really enjoyed having two or three favored and upgraded weapons. But here so far I can't get attached to anything, since they break or degrade, even the seemingly cool stuff, and while finding new or replacement weapons isn't impossible or even necessarily difficult, it feels like wheel spinning. Likewise the (so far?) limited arrows, which are in relatively sort supplies at stores. Now, in Dark Souls, iirc, you could buy tons of arrows at various prices, but you could generally stock up for a long stretch. But here no such luck. I run out of arrows all the time, which is, yes, annoying, because there are things you absolutely *need* arrows for, not just to make things easier but literally *need.* Now it's easy enough to teleport back to some place that sells them, but there is no guarantee they'll be in stock, which just adds, yes, time. I liked finding shit in Dark Souls, because it often came as a surprise or a challenge. I find it less fun here because it seems like a chore, especially given the very limited inventory, vs. the unlimited inventory of DS.

Dark Souls is for n00bs

That's me!

Tips for arrows:
- there are stores at every town (Gerudo, hateno, kakariko, goron, rito, and the shop inside forbidden woods) as well as at tarrey town**.
- At every stable, accost Beedle, cos he always has at least 15arrows on him.
- let moblins attack you, while defending with a wood shield or pot lid. The arrows will hit and stick and when you put the shield away you get a free arrow
- blow up metal crates, boxes and barrels, sometimes they have arrows.

** once you build it anyway)

josh i don't get you man

Brought to you by "how the fuck does Sonic the Hedgehog work exactly I feel old"

― Stoop Crone (Trayce)

the first sonic the hedgehog game has one button, you use it to jump

there's a stupid and counterintuitive part in sonic 3 casino night zone that i never did figure out how to get past but aside from that it's pretty straightforward?

lol

i don't either tbh, with games at least, but i do take a strange fascination in watching you grow to understand the medium. i kinda regret pushing you so hard to try BotW (i swear i only did it because i was certain it would be a net benefit in your life!), but now i think maybe it would be useful for you to play 5 or 6 short games (10 hours or so) rather than 1 long one. you use dark souls and celeste a lot as your reference points, which i understand, but most games are very different from those two. it would be like if your only reference points for movies were Platoon and When Harry Met Sally. it'd probably be good to just hop into a series of shorter games? i dunno

xp

josh I feel like we're growing apart

a few xps

in that game you can more or less finish the game with the first weapon you pick, which you can upgrade any number of fun ways (and repair as necessary). There are cool rare weapons, easy to find weapons, all sorts of weapons, most you never use

I think this is precisely why the devs made the BOTW weapons break. They wanted you to try everything.

But yeah, that doesn't necessarily make the game more fun for you.

what game should we bully josh into playing next

I vote QWOP

I'm a fan of any game where you can retrieve your arrows from the body of your victim (or over by a bush because I completely missed my target) and reuse them. That's value!

i vote civilization