C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

Five Too Many is almost deconstructed Afrobeat, and continues the proud/shameful tradition of songs with the time signature in the title.

I remember writing an old demo that was basically Afrobeat in 5, it must have been inspired by this.

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli)

haha, "whirlweek" was the first solo grubbs song i heard, had no idea that was akchote on it!

Thanks for the Savath + Salas heads up. This is magnificent.

Oh hey: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tortoise-tnt/

That's the first time I've read pitchfork in many, many years and the reason why:

TNT’s opening title track is the most live-sounding cut on the record, but it, too, was carefully built one part at a time. As it begins, the cymbals and snare taps are like the tide rolling in, the skitters and crashes are as jazzy as Tortoise get, and out of this foamy pile emerges Jeff Parker’s immortal guitar line.

Anyone who listened to M/Aerial M during this time period knows that this is 100% Pajo.

I wrote this upthread, and this sentiment is exactly what I was referring to:
"Relistening to TNT now, it's funny how people are Jeff Parker this/that, but Pajo is all over this, I guess people forgot he was still in the band at this point."

i think it's a 13-note phrase, by my mind's recollection..

classic, tho

Anyone else going to be at Pitchfork's Midwinter festival in Chicago this weekend? Lineup is quite good all around, but I'm most looking forward to Tortoise's performance of TNT.

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

― Indexed, Tuesday, February 12, 2019 3:57 PM (five days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hope someone records the TNT set, would love to hear that

Guess I'm the only person who really liked The Catastrophist?

(I like every Tortoise album btw)

Pulled out my vinyl copy of TNT tonight, which I've had for nearly 20 years, and learned for the first time that sides 1 and 3 have cool locked grooves.

i have to admit I'm not 100% sure that's Pajo on the first track -- the style is more Pajo but the tone sounds like Parker to me. Is there a definitive answer somewhere?

I mean, here's them live in 98 with just Parker

https://youtu.be/Zfujgu5w54E?t=1826 (around 30:55 -- sounds pretty damn close to the record to me)

This article makes me wonder if Tortoise even knows who came up with the guitar part for that song.

http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4149985-album-by-album-with-tortoise

I definitely saw Tortoise a bunch early on, and since I remember when Jeff started playing with them (it was the first time there was guitar on stage) I'm pretty sure it was Bundy I saw playing with them before that. (I remember Bundy being this more mysterious figure; I have no idea what became of him.) I'm 90% sure I never saw Pajo with Tortoise.

McCombs did indeed play a lot of six-string bass/baritone guitar. I remember that being his thing in Tortoise. I once saw Eleventh Dream Day play an in-store around 1994, as a trio, and I kept trying to identify the fish icon on the back of McCombs' bass. Eventually someone turned around, gave me a look like I was the dumbest person in the world, and just says "it's a bass," and I was, like, "ohhhhhhhhhh!"

Yeah I remember seeing them live and realizing that a lot of those especially thick sounding guitar parts were actually Doug on a Bass 6. But even with that, they switched up so much in the live show that I'm not sure that was necessarily him on the record for those particular parts either.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51549861_10161292479860304_4637805763253764096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=7b84ab703b3f6573b9abbcf7f51d296d&oe=5CF6FD45

Interior is not much better.

A friend of mine pointed out that it was bought only recently for $720,000, so my guess is it's an attempted Amazon HQ2 flip. Whoops.

solid revive

lol wrong thread on last post obv

lol xp i was like "is that the house where they lived and recorded TNT?"

ate only rice iirc

(I remember Bundy being this more mysterious figure; I have no idea what became of him.)

I really like the Directions in Music album he did. Sort of post-classic-rock.

Yeah, but that was 15 years ago or so right?

23 years ago!

(aside from the A Lazarus Taxon b-sides/remixes collection, which I listened to a ton).

Listening to 'Waihopei' and the way the blown-out acoustic drums keep popping in and out of the track around the drum machine, man, I tried to rip that off many times in the mid '00s.

(I remember Bundy being this more mysterious figure; I have no idea what became of him.)

I really like the Directions in Music album he did. Sort of post-classic-rock.

― Position Position, Monday, February 18, 2019 4:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is perhaps my favorite record of the whole scene/time, love all the dubby textures sitting with acoustic guitars. all the musicians on it sound great.

i remember reading a long time ago that Brown was working as an EMT.

also, because of this thread i listened to the For Carnation s/t album for the first time. i had the marshmallows cd back in the day and never liked it much, but this record is great!

That s/t For Carnation is a lost classic. Kinda like Spiderland or a Low record - if you settle yourself in and embrace its mood, it’s pretty brilliant.

I hope someone records the TNT set, would love to hear that

Guess I'm the only person who really liked The Catastrophist?

(I like every Tortoise album btw)

― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, February 17, 2019 8:09 AM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was superb. Aside from Grouper, nothing else I saw this weekend came close. They were very tight and cohesive and brought a good amount of energy to the performance.

As someone who never got to see them perform in their heyday, it certainly transformed the way I think about TNT from a headphones/studio/post-production album - mostly driven by its stop-start rhythms and shifting styles - to an actual composition that could translate to the live stage.

...how many shows did you go to over the weekend?

Festival?

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

the for carnation album is indeed a wondrous thing. Hopefully it one day will be rediscovered

Brian McMahon whispering 'who did this to us?' at the end of Moonbeams is one of the most heartstopping moments in all of music.

many xps, but whoever posted Parker playing "TNT" upthread should realize that he flubs the riff (or plays it intentionally loose to the point of a flub?).

Here's Pajo playing "Gamera" (a song BKB wrote for the band) live on baritone guitar, almost sounds like a preclude to "TNT":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYdWHwnWxD0

Go to 3:48 on this track for a very similar riff to the one played on TNT, recorded around the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Avr7Y23GgA

Yeah, I know what Pajo sounds like. It's possible that he wrote the riff (especially based on the article posted above) but I believe it's Parker playing it. Hearing those clips again only further convinces me -- the tone on TNT doesn't sound like Pajo.

I call him "PJ" we have a great vibe

What is the correct pronunciation of Pajo's name? Asking for a friend.

PJ's cool about it Pah-jo, Pa-ho it's just letters and sounds

'Dave'

I mean, I know we all have bad days.... but listening to Parker here is like a jr. high school cover band sitting in, just can't hear him as author of that riff (esp as I've yet to hear him play it "right"!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIkdcYdSfg

xp: pa-ho.

Huh, I think he's just picking the wrong time to be a jazz dude about it. I mean, he starts playing it straight once the whole band comes in (2 min).

This seems relevant to recent discussion:

'imagine a graphic showing all the bands the five members of Tortoise were in' reminded me of this 'a beautiful mind'-esque diagram @WNUR893 gave out to all the freshmen DJs when i was at NU :-) pic.twitter.com/ACAH4KIfFr

— arielle (@reallygordon) February 17, 2019

omg memories
whoa

i feel like there is an extra wing of/appendix to that diagram for all of the jazz/improv stuff happening at the time. very fruitful chicago period!

probably also missing a lot of stuff
also (eleventh dream day) too small

chicago is always fruitful, what am i saying

i feel like something like that chart actually existed online in the late '90s, can't imagine where i saw it, tho

Ah, here it is -- a "Squirrel Bait Genealogy"

http://www.chimpomatic.com/file-uploads/large/squirrelbait_family_tree.jpg

And then apparently David Grubbs made his own version more recently:

https://www.paynomindtous.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/squirrel_bait_band_family_tree.jpg

Always been a big Tortoise fan but I was a kid/teen during this period and hadn't delved into all these offshoots and related acts. This thread has been super rewarding the past few weeks.

Tortoise genealogy on BandtoBand

Pitchfork shared the entire Midwinter set of TNT I mentioned above.

https://pitchfork.com/news/watch-tortoise-perform-tnt-in-full-at-pitchfork-and-the-art-institute-of-chicagos-midwinter/

https://youtu.be/EwJf5fw57Yo

Wow, thanks for that!

nice, i grabbed an aud of the set off dime and it was a fun listen