Abolish the BBC Y/N

mb just abolish the bbc's news coverage

i'm not young, you're just v old &/or wrong

well colour me insane, Peel/Mark & Lard/Rock Show/1 in the Jungle/Essential Mix, Westwood etc. etc. were all ways into all sorts of new stuff when I was a teenager

I suppose growing up with the internet is the decisive factor re: millenial/gen x divide

oh no doubt, and I'm probably right on the cusp of that divide, I was 13 when the web was first made generally available

getting groomed by paedos on the internet vs watching/listening to their shows on the bbc

I once realised I was being groomed by a 30something canadian in a yahoo chat room when I was 13, he kept calling me "my favorite brit" and every time I hear "brit" now it reminds me of desperate, horny paedophilia

i'm 38, i've been on the internet since 1995 when it would take three days to download a music file if you were lucky enough to find one

so like neil s i spent my formative years poring over the music press and hoping to catch some of the music i read about on the radio, and in between hearing those songs i was exposed to all kinds of other stuff

i dunno if that makes me v old but it doesn't make me wrong, i dunno why you're being so aggro about this ogmor

Feel like non-current affairs BBC programming has improved over the last few years, like the rise of Netflix has altered the way in which they do drama in particular. And the best of BBC drama is better than most of the badly-scripted-slickly-produced shit you get on Netflix in any case.

BBC current affairs is getting worse and worse - one reason for this is that it gets virtually no support from the government, who would happily abolish or privatise it if they thought they could get away with doing so. As a result they're terrified of the Tory party and the Tory press in a way they weren't pre-2010. You see it everywhere, the ventriloquism of anti-immigration rhetoric their journalists clearly don't believe in, the false balance that leads to Farage or some other overprivileged Spectator/think tank gobshite on every panel instead of non-political experts who might know what they're talking about etc etc.

The good thing about this is that you don't need to abolish the BBC to improve it - it'll improve if we just change the government. On balance I prefer a BBC that's holding the government properly to account, whoever it is - at the moment there's too much credulity about the way they report every government announcement. For the last few years of New Labour, post David Kelly at least, they were virtually at war with the government even as they were being caricatured as the Blair Broadcasting Corporation.

I'm older than that and I haven't listened to the radio voluntarily in about 20 years, once I had an internet connection and Audiogalaxy that was it, I could listen to pretty much whatever I wanted when I wanted and not have to listen to some wanker in between songs

xp

none of that contradicts what i said, though - when i started seriously listening to music i was 14 or so, and filesharing wasn't an option for me until the late 90s/early 2000s, so there were five years or so where listening to the radio was the only option i had to find new music without blind-buying records i'd read about which sounded interesting but hadn't yet heard (which i still did anyway)

neil s otm, i feel like most of britisher music-ilx wouldn't be here if it wisnae for the interest in music that bbc radio sparked and/or nurtured

this is surely insane/sign of a generational divide. idk anyone who got into music through radio, bbc or otherwise

― ogmor, Tuesday, February 12, 2019 9:26 AM (thirty-three minutes ago)

It's very unlikely that most pre-millennial British rock music would have evolved in the way it did without the contribution of BBC radio, and people like Peel and Annie Nightingale in particular.

Radio 3, which usually gets left out of these discussions, continues to provide a vital opportunity for emerging British composers to get their music performed and heard, not least because it employs several orchestras and isn't purely driven by market considerations.

Impossible to imagine the development of British dance music, particularly jungle/garage/dubstep/grime, without the ecosystem provided by pirate radio. 1xtra, despite passing on a lot of this stuff early on, has helped it to develop and for a lot of the artists concerned to become legitimate pop stars at the same time.

Obviously Spotify, Youtube etc have more relevance *now* and are the main gateway drug but the idea that radio hasn't contributed massively to British music and British music fandom is ahistorical guff.

matt dc otm

since 2010 there have been a number of key BBC appointments straight from the tory party machinery and/or machinery-sympathetic adjuncts no ? sarah sands, that britain first QT lady, rob burl or whatever his name is, nick robinson etc

xps
the difference in quality between Radio 3 and Classic FM is a good argument for the bbc tbf.

BBC drama only ever produces a handful of decent things per year imo but they have a huge advantage over Netflix in seeming to start with an assumption that you can tell a story in three or four parts, rather than dragging it out to nine hours by default.

A system where Labour is held to account in government but the Tories are untouchable, through fear or favour, is unsustainable. The news element suffers from slack editorial standards and a relentless push to simplify stories for an audience apparently assumed to be incapable of dealing with nuance, the opinion / commentary element is plagued by aggressive faux-Paxman snark that is mostly water off a duck’s back to the right but more damaging when Labour tries to engage it in better faith. Abolishing it isn’t the answer - privately funded news is at least as bad - but cultural reform is essential. Idk how it can be done, though.

Radio 3 is great, though, as is some of the Radio 4 drama stuff.

I don't think the 9 hrs thing is BBC Vs Netflix, I think it's a UK Vs US thing.

Yes, thats probably true.

Basically, allowing the BBC to go to the wall because of the way its news team covers the Tories would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater and yet another example of willful Tory vandalism to go with the thousands we already have. Even if it's by proxy this time.

Its probably a box-set thing and also follows on from films being much longer now as well. xp

btw the ans to this question is N, whatever the current failings of the news output. Its not based on masses of engagement with it in the last five years although the comaparison with Sky News above seems faulty. 24 hour news is horrible in general (but that's another tangent) and Sky News don't have their version of Question Time which is more part of an entertainment output - its terrible by design. Sky or ITV don't produce an equivalent (thank fuck) anyhow so I wouldn't use QT to beat BBC news with it.

Abolish rolling news.

otm - has there been a single news story since the advent of rolling news which has benefited from being covered as-it-happens instead of forever offering the unedifying spectacle of ill-informed news anchors flapping about and offering glib here's-what-we're-seeing-now comments until someone better-informed stumbles in front of a camera?

It isn't just the news output though, most of the factual content on both TV and radio is not up to standard. Can't count the number of times I've sat down to watch a documentary and it's either "my journey to find out about..." or "here are some clips a load of famous people who apparently know even less about it than I do but we contractually have to interview on every programme we broadcast." and it's infuriating because I just know there are people around who could do a much better job, but they are never going to get a chance.

My background is in linguistics and I would love to have a decent TV or radio programme on the subject, but they invariably hand over the entire topic to people like Stephen Fry or Victoria Coren Mitchell who know next to nothing about it and invariably get basic things wrong (e.g. the infuriating Fry's English Delight episode on "Linguistic Relativism") - Sure that people from other disciplines have similar complaints.

A guarded no from me but I would like to see it hugely reformed. Problem with saying what it shouldn't do is that other people get different things from the Beeb but imo light entertainment and popular drama are available elsewhere so fuck that noise. Much as I despise BBC3 with unbridled old man radge it probably fills a niche not offered elsewhere. BBC4 and all of the radio that isn't popular music has some value to me altho God knows I've got a big cull list there too.

Can't count the number of times I've sat down to watch a documentary and it's either "my journey to find out about..." or "here are some clips a load of famous people who apparently know even less about it than I do but we contractually have to interview on every programme we broadcast." and it's infuriating because I just know there are people around who could do a much better job, but they are never going to get a chance.

That's more to do with a current style of documentary that is in fashion across all channels though.

Much as I despise BBC3 with unbridled old man radge it probably fills a niche not offered elsewhere

Feel like once upon a time E4 was consistently beating BB3 at that particular game in terms of both viewing figures and cultural impact but that seems to have trailed off now.

I've also been half-baking a theory for a while that one reason British pop has churned out so many tepid drama school types over the past 15 years or so is because Later With Jools Holland remains the BBC's flagship music TV show and it hasn't even tried to create anything for a younger audience.

i'm down with any theory that blames jools holland for anything tbh

xp
no aggro intended bg, was just surprised/sceptical that listening to the wireless was a decisive formative experience in the music fandom of a lot of ilmers. pirate&internet radio is a different world but the ppl I know who listen to the radio, especially a lot, are largely casual listeners & as a cultural force it's been fading for about 20 years. thinking abt it I do think there's quite a sudden gulf amongst ppl I know depending on how big a deal p2p file sharing was, with the dividing line being ppl born before/after some point in the early 80s, which I guess explains the probably doomed obsession w/ trying to get listeners under 35

the bbc is good when i agree with it and bad when i dont i cant quite decide if that means it should be abolished or not

no prob ogmor, i think you're right that probably filesharing does represent a hard dividing line - once i had access to napster / slsk etc i was definitely more inclined to risk the wrath of the riaa by chasing down stuff i was interested in on my own than sit by the wireless waiting for mark radcliffe or john peel to play it, but for the years where i was starting to develop a music obsession that was my only option

weird that is is such a hard line tho, where people who are only very slightly younger than i might never have listened to radio of their own volition at all

I barely watch the bbc as is but the thing about them running scared of the Tory government has been around for a lot longer than the last few years. I remember there being a lot of people complaining about their lack of coverage of what then became the Health & Social Care Act, especially as one of the original drafts was removing the duty for the SOS to provide a health service (!).

People like to say “both sides being angry with it” is indicative of them being fair, except there’s a bit of a difference between being even handed with the government, who control the agenda, and the opposition, who don’t.

xp I am now surveying all my 30something friends trying to pinpoint this better, there also seems to be a bit of a gender divide.

> it hasn't even tried to create anything for a younger audience.

There was a Friday night pop show filmed at TVC. It's had 2 series so far, about 6 or 10 episodes each. Don't know if more are planned and can't remember the exact name of it, but then I am outside the target audience (by a factor of 2 probably).

Sounds Like Friday Night
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09cnb5g

I'd say filesharing was the start of the decline but it's streaming that's really killed radio. Look at Radio 1's listening figures over the last 20 years, the real collapse begins around 2010.

I'm always sceptical of the romanticised personal and private/'sitting in your teenage bedroom listening to John Peel' view of pop discovery. The way most people under 30 got into music has always primarily been through social situations - friends swapping tapes, clubs, parties etc. Even now streaming has updated that, rather than replaced it, but radio has for most of the last 50 years been a major driver of the artists and scenes providing the backdrop to those social situations.

The first artist name I saw on that Sounds Like Friday Night page was the Manic Street Preachers, which strikes me as a failure right out of the gate.

what was the last good music show on bbc tv outside of one-off docs?

BRING BACK TOP OF THE POPS BBC!!

ok having consulted my world of 30somethings my theory is the turning point is around 34/35. most ppl younger are p2p babies who didn't tape anything or rely on the radio for music, and there's a crossover period for the older 30somethings who did a mixture.

romantic/private listening is going to be much more prevalent amongst hardcore music nerds and the boundaries are blurred when yr on social media in yr bedroom

bring back dance energy with normski more like xp

has there been a single news story since the advent of rolling news which has benefited from being covered as-it-happens

You mean apart from Moaty, it's Gazza?

okay, you got me, that's the exception that proves the rule

'Killing Eve' the only drama I've watched start to finish on BBC in the last few years I think. 'Detectorists' last thing I unequivocally loved. 'Life Scientific' is v enjoyable on Radio 4 and 'Start the Week' is fine (except when Andrew Marr is hosting).

otm - has there been a single news story since the advent of rolling news which has benefited from being covered as-it-happens instead of forever offering the unedifying spectacle of ill-informed news anchors flapping about and offering glib here's-what-we're-seeing-now comments until someone better-informed stumbles in front of a camera?

― a surprise challenge that ended with a gunging (bizarro gazzara)

at some point i watched the first surviving american tv news broadcast - from the 1940s - and i was surprised at how well it fit in with the spectacle of ill-informed anchors flapping about and offering glib comments, because that was pretty much exactly what the anchor was doing there. the dream of rational/edifying monoculture media was, i'm concluding, only ever a pipe dream.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/feb/12/bbc-cameraman-shoved-and-abused-at-trump-rally-in-el-paso

Personally annoying is the focus on 18-35 year old demographic which is turning all the music stations into pop stations. And moving Radcliffe and Maconie to weekends means I have nothing to listen to at work (and the newshow is pop-heavy, see above)

sharp satire

BBC provides US public broadcasting with hours upon hours of the equivalent of direct-to-dvd, off-the-rack programming. If it should disappear, the PBS schedule would look like the victim of a shotgun blast.

Last week I spent three days with my 86 y/o father, whose evening schedule consists of watching back-to-back documentaries on BBC2 & BBC4. I was shocked by how awful most of them were; had I been on my own I would have been shouting at the screen and turning off in a foul mood. Especially noxious were Andrew Marr on Thatcher and a terrible thing about hump-backed whales, which seemed to be aimed at children. He liked them well enough, although he'll have forgotten them by now.

Portillo seems to be on every day too. in fact, twice today.