Open for Business: Canadian Politics 2019

8 was also my guess but I'd be lying if I said I could name all of 'em

You've got it. The thing that jumped out at me is that there's probably never been eight living presidents (currently five, about normal), even though it's us that doesn't have term limits. That list includes Chretien, who was if office for 10 years, and Harper, who was just shy of 10. What really skews our list is Clark, Turner, and Campbell. I'm not sure if totaled a year between them.

"if they totaled"

Public healthcare for the win?! (Maybe our PMs are just younger?)

Definitely Clark--elected one day shy of 40, out of office within a year. Overall, I think ours are younger: Trudeau, Campbell, and Harper were all in their mid-40s when elected, so that's four out of the eight.

him, Martin and Campbell also did not last long at all, so that's probably making up for the longer term guys.

Yeah, US Presidents have term limits but also have minimum 4-year term guarantees, barring impeachment. (It still boggles my mind a little that when the President effectively 'loses the confidence of Congress', the government can just stay shut down for over a month without any change in leadership.) We would only have four living PMs if you excluded anyone who served for less than four years, as you guys are getting at.

Government-sponsored leftist logic:

❌ Wearing clothes from another ethnic group
❌ White with dreadlocks
❌ Blackface
❌ Men building pipelines
= cultural appropriation, racism, toxic masculinity

✅ Men wearing female dress and makeup
= diversity 🌈 https://t.co/xINlGwZnQe

— Maxime Bernier (@MaximeBernier) February 12, 2019

That's one way to come out as pro-blackface.

It's a fairly common position in Quebec (and Europe), based on the notion that its symbolism varies from country to country.

It's worth nothing that, from what I understand, taking that position in Quebec is wrong. As you might expect, there was significant crossover between Canadian and American minstrel show performers.

https://theconversation.com/the-problem-with-blackface-97987
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/quebec-mps-motion-only-scrapes-the-surface-of-o-canadas-dodgy-origins/article28457416/

Justin Trudeau has never shown any reluctance to wearing clothes from another ethnic group tbf. Tweet = fake news.

He is nothing if not consistent: https://goo.gl/images/fdf8Yi

There's something funny about edgelording on Twitter and having to do it in both official languages.

There's an obvious distinction to be made between imitation as respectful homage and imitation as violent mockery. Blackface has always been about the latter, even when it isn't performed on US territory. There are other ways of demarcating oneself from anglophone culture (which is a vague construct to begin with), for fuck's sake.

And yeah, bilingual edgelording is kind of hilarious.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/02/trudeau-asks-wilson-raybauld-if-she-could-take-blame-for-a-few-other-scandals-on-way-out-the-door/

We're going to end up with the Tories aren't we

"Butts adds in the statement that the allegations distract from the 'vital work' Trudeau and the PMO are doing."

Why do politicians continue to trot this formulation out as part of damage control? In poker, it's called a tell. You may as well stamp "Nixon" on your forehead.

I haven't really been following the whole debacle. Is Trudeau likely fucked?

Nothing about this makes me more angry than the TMX fiasco and I have no idea what the NDP is up to at this point so personally, I don’t think so.

Scheer continuing to pal around with Faith Goldy is pretty fucking concerning.

Ugh, that's fucking awful.

Is Trudeau likely fucked?

As far as whether it's likely to impact the election, so far it seems a little too complicated and ambiguous to really catch on with voters. But who knows? I feel like this kind of conflict of interest scandal would hardly register as a blip in the US.

Scratch out 'conflict of interest' - that's not exactly what this is

I feel like this kind of conflict of interest scandal would hardly register as a blip in the US.

Probably true but that's not the model I would want to emulate. I'm still waiting to hear more from Wilson-Raybould herself. It's all still p vague at this point. If it's true, I'm furious that Trudeau would think a fucking construction company was worth it.

i honestly can't even tell when the liberals have done something seriously egregious, or if it's just more noise from the facebook/sun media outrage factory.

The scandal itself seems too opaque to mean much right now. I was more disturbed to learn that the Liberals introduced deferred prosecution agreements in a budget bill last June.

If it's true that Trudeau pressured the AG to go easy on a QC construction giant that was facing fraud and corruption charges, that's p easy to understand and p gross (in addition to demonstrating the hollowness of his commitment to diversity within his cabinet). Hopefully, that's not what happened.

I'm really curious what kind of penalty SNC would have had to pay under the deferred prosecution agreement. Not enough to bankrupt the company and threaten jobs, presumably. Would corporations just treat it as a cost of doing business?

If it's true that Trudeau pressured the AG to go easy on a QC construction giant that was facing fraud and corruption charges, that's p easy to understand and p gross (in addition to demonstrating the hollowness of his commitment to diversity within his cabinet)

Undoubtedly so. I didn't quite catch that last part, though (like I said, I'm out of the loop).

If it's true that Trudeau pressured the AG to go easy on a QC construction giant that was facing fraud and corruption charges, that's p easy to understand and p gross (in addition to demonstrating the hollowness of his commitment to diversity within his cabinet). Hopefully, that's not what happened.

― silent as a seashell Julia (Sund4r), Wednesday, February 20, 2019 7:39 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seems like it was? and not just "pressured the AG to go easy" but both pressured and then later demoted

Everything I've read so far has been in the language of "alleged" and "sources claim", with no direct comment from Wilson-Raybould, but, yeah, doesn't look good so far.

facepalm:

Wernick disputed the allegations reported in the Globe and sought to reframe them, saying that while it's likely Wilson-Raybould could have felt pressured, it's a question of whether that constitutes as "inappropriate pressure," or pressure that comes with being part of the inner circle that makes key decisions with national implications. In his view, the pressure was "lawful and appropriate," and had to do with the broader “context” like the economic and job consequences should SNC-Lavalin be found guilty and not allowed to bid on government contracts for a decade.

^^^ sounds like classic Liberal Party logic

love that lawful and appropriate pressure

go jagmeet!

"When I was growing up I could have never imagined someone like me running for prime minister, but guess what we just told a lot of kids out there that yes, you can," Singh said in a victory speech, flanked by supporters.

sikhs are overrepresented in canadian politics by population, including currently liberal minister of national defence, minister of natural resources, minister of innovation, represented in all parties, provincial legislatures, a former premier, sikh religious leaders kingmakers in certain ridings... maybe he means in the '80s? i'm younger than jagmeet but a wealthy woke sikh lawyer from ontario with political connections running for pm i don't think would have struck me as particularly improbable, even a decade earlier. that kind of thing strikes me as, like... i guess, maybe, it works? even if it seems fucking lame to me, knowing his background.

who cares, though. hope he surprises me and starts fucking shit up.

there really haven't been a lot of minorities in executive positions of provinces or parties...ujjal dosanjh was a bit of an accidental leader.

jagmeet is a big cheeseball however

yeah, i get it, it's a good thing probably, and i realize he's talking not just to wealthy sikh lawyers but plenty of other folks that don't see themselves represented in canadian politics.
i've so completely checked out of canadian politics that i shouldn't try to make any points.

Acc to a quick Wikipedia search, Herb Dhaliwal was the first Indo-Canadian appointed to the federal cabinet - in 1997, when Singh and I were both 18. Check out how white Chretien's (not even Mulroney's) Cabinets were otherwise: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/26th_Canadian_Ministry. Singh's comment isn't that hard to understand for me. (I did *imagine* it tbf.)

I mostly just listen on this thread, but that's a bizarre post imo (dylannn's not Sund4r's).

He's evoking Obama at the end, so I don't think he's making a point beyond: Canada has never had a prime minister who wasn't white (and Christian afaik). I have no idea how many potential PMs have deviated from that norm, but I very much doubt Sikhs or Asian Canadians or people of colour are overrepresented in that category. Also, I question framing Singh's identity as narrowly Sikh rather than the broader racial and cultural categories he's undoubtedly been put in throughout his life. And I genuinely don't understand what "woke" is meant to signify in the phrase "wealthy woke sikh lawyer"--it'd been more surprising if he wasn't "woke"? What does woke even mean as a description of the leader of the NDP? And a genuine question: is he wealthy? If so, how did he become so?

Anyway, sitting here in Quebec, it's grimly laughable to me to suggest that Singh being elected PM wouldn't be significant for people of colour.

Yeah, consider that there were reports of Singh's turban being an issue for some voters even in the Outremont byelection: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/outremont-byelection-singh-s-public-displays-of-faith-on-voters-minds-1.4310187 . (Lol @ "heavily secular province")

To expand on when Singh was growing up, recall that Mulroney offered his condolences to (India's PM at the time) Rajiv Gandhi after 288 Canadian citizens, mostly of Indian ancestry, were killed in the 1985 Air India disaster. South Asians were commonly othered. The P-word was probably more common than the n-word in the 80s and early 90s ime. It was absolutely easier to imagine a white man from a working-class family (like Mulroney) as PM.

i hear you ilx friends, maybe i'm too young / from the wrong part of the country to connect much with the idea of sikh guy running for pm being unexpected, i really can't gauge how much guys like terry milewski speak for the suspicions of white canadians and how much he's a fringe crank, for example. and yes, of course, i understand, when he was a child, an indo-canadian man that wore a turban running for pm would have been hard to conceive of, and yes, i understand it's meant to speak to non white canadians (and perhaps young people in general) that feel it improbable that someone from their community could run for office.

of course, some of that post comes from my own prejudices about sikhs! but honestly i do find it a bit tone deaf i guess (or just to use internet language "cringe") because he DOES come from relative privilege and a community/family/background that does have elite political and business connections, so someone from say a first nation in northern manitoba or the children of burmese refugees in moose jaw or plenty of other communities could never, no matter how inspired they are, tap into. but yes, it would be significant for people of color. i understand that.

yes, rob, he's rich. i mean woke as in, ratio of progressive talking points to fiery leftist rhetoric but surveying the canadian political landscape from afar, i can live with that, as long as it's good strategy and i'm not 100% convinced he is.

and also i express these thoughts knowing i'm talking here to probably 5 ilx canadians who lean left, probably like me will vote for their ndp candidate, and will hopefully point out where i'm wrong.

*im not convinced it is, among other typos

he DOES come from relative privilege and a community/family/background that does have elite political and business connections, so someone from say a first nation in northern manitoba or the children of burmese refugees in moose jaw or plenty of other communities could never, no matter how inspired they are, tap into

Idk what you're looking for, dylannn. Singh didn't imply that he had broken down every barrier. It's still hard for me to imagine a Filipino lesbian in a wheelchair as President of the US; that doesn't mean that Obama's becoming President wasn't significant. It is remarkably honest and self-aware that you recognize that you have prejudices about Sikhs but please try to consider that these might be the very factors Singh is pushing against! If you were arguing that e.g. this should matter less than the ideas he brings to the table, I could understand, and might well agree, but that doesn't seem to be your point.

(Fwiw, btw, someone from a First Nation in Northern Manitoba was a key player in one of the first major political crises I remember: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Harper. Not a candidate for PM, of course, just what came to mind.)

sund4r, rob, everyone i do appreciate the time/tone you took to address me on this. the original point ("jagmeet singh is rich and privileged and yes we can sounds odd coming from him because of course he can") was out of line, i quickly realized, a bad faith reading of what he said, before i had watched the full victory speech, and trying to explain it without my full conviction didn't help and to continue, i'm arguing against misunderstandings of my poorly-expressed thoughts...

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/jody-wilson-raybould-testimony-live

Wilson-Raybould started her testimony with a strong statement saying she there was a “consistent and sustained effort to seek to politically interfere” to secure a deferred prosecution agreement for SNC-Lavalin. Wilson-Raybould said it involved 11 people and ran from September until December of last year.

Wilson-Raybould said it is inappropriate for anyone in the government to press “the Attorney General on things he/she cannot take into account,” such as partisan political concerns.

Trudeau statement at 8 pm tonight.

you were definitely putting your family first you little rat lol

everyone ties for first in Justin's canada

Former SNC-Lavalin exec found guilty on five counts of corruption, fraud, and money laundering in Libya:

#BREAKING Former SNC-Lavalin executive found guilty on Libya corruption charges

Sami Bebawi, 73, convicted on all 5 counts including fraud, corruption of foreign officials and laundering proceeds of crime #cdnpoli https://t.co/dXtSw6l0eg pic.twitter.com/4zM82420bK

— Natasha Fatah (@NatashaFatah) December 15, 2019

Former resident Kabul head of Canada's aid program in Afghanistan on the failure of the mission: https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/banerjee-why-we-still-need-a-review-of-canadas-role-in-afghanistan

In the light of the Afghanistan Papers, btw, I'm reminded of 'Taliban Jack' Layton's statement in 2006:

That mission is the wrong mission for Canada. There is no plan for victory. There is no exit strategy. There is no sign that it is making the Taliban weaker or the world safer. And there is no hope of changing the realities on the ground in Afghanistan--with the forces we have or can commit.

New thread: We Still Have a Government, Right?: Canadian Politics 2020