if it’s wrong to believe the deficit doesn’t matter I don’t want to be right.― Norm’s Superego (silby), Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:44 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:44 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
saying 'the deficit doesn't matter' in the sense of, we don't need to freak out and pay it off is one thing. saying you can pay for anything forever and revenue doesn't matter is a different thing
i think i must have seen that marshall steinbaum fellow, who seemed legit, say something approving of her and hence― j., Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:51 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― j., Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:51 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
marshall is semi-legit and strategically neutral on MMT. he and kelton have work together about student debt that crisis that doesn't really rely on MMT
― flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:59 (five years ago) link
Her speaking voice sucks and she's going to have vocal problems pretty soon if she doesn't change it. I genuinely think a lot of "SHE'S DUMB!!!!" stuff coming from the right is an unconscious reaction to her voice. I think she's pretty all right generally, but the voice messes me up because 1. I'm old and 2. moms was an opera singer.
― Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:12 (five years ago) link
i like her voice
― flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:15 (five years ago) link
You're welcome to.
― Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:20 (five years ago) link
I mean, vernacular changes because folks like the new way of speaking. Dinosaurs don't like change, folks into voice production don't like undersupport and speaking head voice.
― Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:22 (five years ago) link
Her speaking voice sucks and she's going to have vocal problems pretty soon if she doesn't change it.
this is one of the weirdest things i've read here.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Sunday, 10 February 2019 13:57 (five years ago) link
vocal coach DESTROYS AOC with head voice critique
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:08 (five years ago) link
loll
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:17 (five years ago) link
lmao this is a new one
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:21 (five years ago) link
Most women's speaking voices "traditionally" sucks trope.
― Yerac, Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:22 (five years ago) link
I still love that Elizabeth Holmes affecting a deeper voice story.
― Yerac, Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:24 (five years ago) link
Thanks for the MMT post, flopson. Very interesting.
― jmm, Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:31 (five years ago) link
"what i choose is my voice" - aoc
― ⅋ (crüt), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:33 (five years ago) link
what about the voice of aoc
how did it get so high
― j., Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:06 (five years ago) link
i know those things end up mattering more than they should but I hadn't noticed anything bad about her voice(!) - thought pacing and delivery was very good in that corruption hearing thing
Have seen some weird "bernie and aoc are the same / bernie and aoc are NOT the same" stuff on twitter, which again seems to come down to this "democratic socialism is compatible with capitalism" / 'democratic socialism is not compatible with capitalism" stuff which is a bit niche interest to me. cba too much with too much labelling and naming just get the ball in the net and score a goal and thats what she is doing
― anvil, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:09 (five years ago) link
I don't mind AOC's voice, but I agree with three word username that such cosmetic things matter. You may not want them to, and some people get upset if you even broach the subject, but they do, a lot. Women undoubtedly get singled out disproportionately for such complaints (and they're harsher, and more symbolically loaded for a woman), but I could definitely name many men where I couldn't get past the voice. I think of Jon Huntsman immediately--I cringed every time he spoke. Ted Cruz, independent of whatever nonsense he's spouting. Martin O'Malley. Closer to home, Doug Ford.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:19 (five years ago) link
Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm had...unconventional... New York voices, didn't seem to hurt them much.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:36 (five years ago) link
lads
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:43 (five years ago) link
I mean how has Booker not been mentioned
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:45 (five years ago) link
poll
― L'assie (Euler), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:46 (five years ago) link
Ted Cruz and Doug Ford, noted losers of elections
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
Perhaps millions of Trump voters have still never heard him speak.
― nashwan, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:59 (five years ago) link
It doesn't work that way--it's totally subjective, totally irrational. Obviously, lots of people don't mind their voices at all. I'm sure Jon Huntsman sounds like Winston Churchill to some people, just like I'm sure Winston Churchill sounds like Sarah Palin to others. I'm not predicting results here--the point is, if enough people didn't like AOC's voice, that would be a problem for her.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:06 (five years ago) link
I think the fact that it took like 10k posts about AOC before anyone brought up her voice points to it not being a problem
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:07 (five years ago) link
what the hell is happening itt
― Calgary customer Elvis Cavalic (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:08 (five years ago) link
It took a weird detour, an ILX first.
Trump voters evidently love Trump's voice. Don't ask me why.
Based on this thread, agree--only one objection raised. How representative the people posting on this thread are of the larger populace, I don't know. Anyway, again, I'm agreeing with the underlying point in TWU's post, that's all.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:12 (five years ago) link
it not only hasn't been mentioned until now on ILX, I've never once seen it mentioned on Twitter, Reddit (left, lib or right-wing), or in the press. this is Not A Thing.
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:15 (five years ago) link
You don't want it to be, anyway. I assume you want to believe that the Person With the Best Ideas automatically wins elections. If that makes you happy, carry on.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:17 (five years ago) link
(If you're limiting your objection to AOC only, then sure, maybe you're right.)
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:18 (five years ago) link
jesus fuck
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:19 (five years ago) link
Now jesus fuck, he had a nice voice.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:20 (five years ago) link
the idea that right-wingers are "unconsciously objecting" to a young woman of color who supports left-wing policy because she has a "head voice" is fucking stupid sorry
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:30 (five years ago) link
Is Three Word Username a right-winger? Because I was specifically making my point within the context of his dislike of AOC's voice.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:31 (five years ago) link
her only flaws are: american + her voice
― ||||||||, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:31 (five years ago) link
can you fucking read
I genuinely think a lot of "SHE'S DUMB!!!!" stuff coming from the right is an unconscious reaction to her voice.
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:32 (five years ago) link
idk these same people thought Obama was dumb despite the fact that he had pretty much the best voice of any President but it occurs to me there may be another reason for that
― frogbs, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (five years ago) link
is the flaw that she's american the flaw that she's not british? it is a cliche but we could do with a few like her
― imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (five years ago) link
No, I can't read Simon. Please move the conversation there.
My initial post came right after TWU's post. Everything I've said was in reference to that. I'm hardly saying that AOC's voice is going to be an obstacle she may have to overcome with Trump voters (and if she can just get past that, they'll embrace her).
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (five years ago) link
ive seen people call her voice 'nerdy' before but haven't seen anyone suggest it's an impediment to anything
― ciderpress, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:38 (five years ago) link
A voice is a voice
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:39 (five years ago) link
She just sounds like a young woman to me
― frogbs, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
A Fox News intern exposes AOC's flaws:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgvfMreXcAAIvkn.jpg
― tabloid/petromonarchy alliance (Sanpaku), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
I see now that TWU's post had that line about the right--I was focused on his objection to her voice. So, point taken, I should have read that post closer.
To clarify: I think something like AOC's (or anybody's) voice could matter in getting his or her party's nomination. It's just there, one of the many cosmetic factors that matter, even if you don't think they should. If enough people instinctively resist, you have a problem. But no, in AOC's case, the right's hatred of her is a whole other matter.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:42 (five years ago) link
― frogbs, Sunday, February 10, 2019 11:40 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Billy Joel's finest hour
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:43 (five years ago) link
clemenza take your concern trolling over to some Canadian politics thread where you might have a clue what you're talking about
― sleeve, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:56 (five years ago) link
I thought I had killfiled you, going to fix that right now
― sleeve, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
Shouldn't you be out patrolling the neighborhood for pretend punks? Please, whatever that means, please do so.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
Her voice is good. She sounds like a young person from the new york metropolitan area.
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:07 (five years ago) link
hmmm sorry you did not include a spectrographic analysis, try again
― bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:08 (five years ago) link
folks into voice production don't like undersupport and speaking head voice.
this is 2019's blended haircut moment imo
― imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:12 (five years ago) link