C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

^looove that record

So far Camofleur sounds like a nice blend of Isotope 217 (electronics & processed horns) and Sea and Cake (soft pop, not to over-generalize). Really nice.

It's sort of their easy listening album. The earlier stuff was a little more 'difficult'.

speaking of post rock first listens

will never forget the first time i heard "Our Exquisite Replica of "Eternity""

I always do this, but have to recommend the first Cougar album, made by a group of my friends and very much influenced by this music (TNT in particular). And mixed by McEntire.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1rrQX4w2GxuStM713LTEA8?si=D64l8fFxSzmRl31__fVPzQ

Second album is better produced and maybe better overall, but this one has the pretty melodies and is more naturalistic.

xpost My mind was blown then and blown a second time when I saw The Incredible Shrinking Man a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpsu6RV4dJk

wow, arches and aisles is great, i don't know how i missed it

love camofleur, david grubbs is underrated, there are two great tribute records from japan from around this time that have plenty of folks from that whole scene, "smiling pets" the beach boys tribute and "rabid chords" the velvet underground tribute, it's a good nutshell of the sort of stuff i was into in those days

Totally forgot about Smiling Pets!

Arches and Aisles is a great album, but I'd also recommend the rest of the McEntire-less Spinanes/Rebecca Gates discography. She's fantastic and sadly underrated imo.

<3 this revive

This revive has sent me off down all sorts of rabbit holes. Not even heard of those Japanese tributes. Or the Spinanes.

Great thread revive indeed. Getting pretty nostalgic for that era. Late 90s, Thrill Jockey / Drag City, takes me back to some pretty golden musical days for me.
Had never heard of the Spinanes connection. I'm checking out Arches and Aisles, it's pretty good but it definitely reminds me how Manos was labelled on some ilx thread as perfect music to "listen to alone in your flat with a cup of coffee on a chilly, overcast morning". They just sound so relentlessly dour.

Strange, I never considered Tortoise the least bit loose or sloppy. I did generally get the feeling that Herndon and McEntire in particular were trying to "jazz" up the compositions a bit, but the product was always still very stiff and formalized, wed to the original arrangement. Though I seem to recall a few of their earlier shows seeing more one-off experiments, like one I saw with Bitney on a home made electric drum set. Speaking of which:

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol

Ehhhh ...I mean, there was McEntire and Bundy, who were in Bastro before that with Grubbs. But Bundy and McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album, etc. All these Chicago-y bands at the time were kind of overlapping a bit across a weird Oberlin/post-Slint Louisville axis. (And obviously Doug McCombs, another major Louisville/Chicago connection.) Squirrel Bait, Bastro, Bitch Magnet, Seam, Shrimp Boat (incl. Brad Wood) to Tortoise/Sea and Cake, Gastr del Sol. It was kind of a gradual evolution of line-ups and players. And Idful.

don't forget Codeine!

McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album

The drummer on Headsparks (Seam's first album), was none other than Mac McCaughan (and he's great):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT52-pdhEeQ

Mac McCaughan, to tie everything up, is on the new Merge records 'Heroes' album - mentioned on the boards somewhere today.

Bundy and McEntire play on the the second album, then. Maybe "Sweet Pea?"

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

The lineup for the first Gastr del Sol album is Grubbs, McEntire and Brown. Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise. It’s not a stretch to say they’re connected. There are moments on Serpentine Similar that definitely point toward the first Tortoise album, if you can look past Grubbs’ very distinctive guitar style.

Obviously both bands evolved immensely after that due to significant additions to their lineups (and the departure of Brown from everything). But it’s interesting to listen to Serpentine and then the Tortoise debut.

Checked out The Spinanes 'Arches and Aisles' earlier due to this thread and really like it, thanks!

ok, now i've been tracking grubbs' career and i found out that he's on this arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté, fairly interesting

and yeah obv there's a grubbs-tortoise connection, see also bastro's "antlers: live 1991", which is fucking great

I mean, all these connections and such aren't really particularly interesting bc at the end of the day Tortoise are the only band from the whole scene that is worth shit. Tortoise >>>>>>>>>>>>>> every other band mentioned in this revive

take it to the controp thread, person with bad opinions

Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise.

I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, February 10, 2019 12:25 PM (four hours ago)

Doug Scharin (Rex, HiM, Directions In Music) replaced Chris Brokaw on their 2nd album.

I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

I mean sure, I don’t know. I’m just trying to make a simple point that there is some stylistic overlap in the GdS album if you listen for it.

Wasn't there a book about post-rock's history coming out late last year or this year? I forgot both author and title.

This one, maybe? It came out in 2017.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41qYjStpxWL._SX347_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

That was it, thanks!

Chicago Underground Quartet s/t fits in well here too. Jeff Parker's work with Makaya McCraven also worth seeking out (discussed on the rolling jazz thread).

I thought there were more people from the Tar Babies in the band. or that more of teh band had been in the Tar Babies, certainly thought there was band history in them when i picked up the 2nd lp No Contest on cd. Quite fun hyper funk hardcorish stuff, I think it reminded me of the early meat puppets but coming more from funk instead of bluegrass. Otherwise similar melange of different influences played faster than you're used to from the original influences.
Looks like it's only Dan Bitney that were in them.

Did we mention 5ive Style? Another related side note.

Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise.
I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 11 February 2019 01:06 (fourteen hours ago) Permalink

This is my understanding as well, the idea was for Herndon & McCombs, who got to know each other when Precious Wax Drippings & Eleventh Dream Day respectively toured together, to be a kind of rhythm section for hire a la Sly & Robbie. That was the germ at least (and they played one show that way? Opening for the Ex) and as mentioned above there was just a lot of Chicago/Louisville/etc overlap.

arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté

that's a fun record, noel akchote is a curious character

indeed, i'm listening to his record of weird coltrane arrangements for acoustic guitar. very much along the lines of "huh, this is a coltrane song? i thought i'd heard this one before."

ok, now i've been tracking grubbs' career and i found out that he's on this arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté, fairly interesting

that's a fun record, noel akchote is a curious character

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=737E-NURglE

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

^ another one that was in heavy rotation around the same time

Totally forgot about that record.

Anyone else going to be at Pitchfork's Midwinter festival in Chicago this weekend? Lineup is quite good all around, but I'm most looking forward to Tortoise's performance of TNT.

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

Big fan of "Whirlweek." Grubbs's post-Gastr song-based records don't get as much love as O'Rourke's, and they're admittedly a bit spotty, but there's still some good stuff to be found.

This was listed in Downtown Music Gallery's newsletter of this week, although the release (of another Tortoise sideproject) isn't new: http://www.chicagoodenseensemble.com/

Found ‘Standards’ pretty rough to get into (I guess I like my Tortoise easy and jazzy) but really liked ‘It’s All Around You’. Surprised not to see it mentioned itt

It's All Around You was very proto-chillwave

Standards has 'Monica', which is a top 10 Tortoise track for me. It's All Around You was their last great record imo.

It's All Around You is prob my second fave Tortoise (aside from the A Lazarus Taxon b-sides/remixes collection, which I listened to a ton).

pandering to the madison area crowd with that one tho

lol

Listening to IAAY and the title track has that great rhythmic illusion going on. I think it's almost entirely down to the drum kit in the left channel doing that persistent 4-against-3 thing?

Five Too Many is almost deconstructed Afrobeat, and continues the proud/shameful tradition of songs with the time signature in the title.

I remember writing an old demo that was basically Afrobeat in 5, it must have been inspired by this.

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli)

haha, "whirlweek" was the first solo grubbs song i heard, had no idea that was akchote on it!

Thanks for the Savath + Salas heads up. This is magnificent.

Oh hey: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tortoise-tnt/

That's the first time I've read pitchfork in many, many years and the reason why:

TNT’s opening title track is the most live-sounding cut on the record, but it, too, was carefully built one part at a time. As it begins, the cymbals and snare taps are like the tide rolling in, the skitters and crashes are as jazzy as Tortoise get, and out of this foamy pile emerges Jeff Parker’s immortal guitar line.

Anyone who listened to M/Aerial M during this time period knows that this is 100% Pajo.

I wrote this upthread, and this sentiment is exactly what I was referring to:
"Relistening to TNT now, it's funny how people are Jeff Parker this/that, but Pajo is all over this, I guess people forgot he was still in the band at this point."

i think it's a 13-note phrase, by my mind's recollection..

classic, tho