What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

how long will they still have jobs

and it's not like she's not part of a wing herself, among her fellow freshmen and otherwise

I'm glad she's here to catch GOP flak/calumnies that would otherwise be directed at our presidential candidates.

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

― Trϵϵship

ts: mozart vs. tiger woods

today ended up being well timed for this thread, that video of her explaining the legality of corruption has been everywhere

lol "tiger woods of politics" is ominous for sure

I found her annoying early on but have warmed to her since. I lived in her district and her campaign had some cringe moments when she wasn't as on top of a lot of details. she wasn't always great at twitter. when she beat crowley and she accused him of trying to mount a 3rd party campaign - that looked pretty bad, especially given how well he actually took his loss. at that point in time it wasn't clear she wouldn't end up being an embarrassment. but anyway, she's turned out to be a rare political talent who's smart, charismatic, great on camera etc. etc. and will presumably be an important part of the democratic party for decades.

flaws: the green new deal narrative that she's helping build is one where we can fight global warming without middle class americans making sacrifices.

when she beat crowley and she accused him of trying to mount a 3rd party campaign - that looked pretty bad, especially given how well he actually took his loss.

i had this in mind when i mentioned her missteps. what was dispiriting about it was that initially she doubled down after many people tried to explain that his presence on the ballot was due to a quirk of NY's electoral system. above all it just seemed to relfect that she was *too online* -- she didn't take that required interval of reflection and research before just kind of hammering crowley about it, instead it was just the usual barrage of tweets. but that turned out to be kind of anomalous -- there haven't really been a lot of similar missteps since, in my view.

xpost

tbh "fighting global warming" in any sense would really mean a profound transformation in human civilization -- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept. nor are there really any mechanics to effect it. so we're doomed imo.

yeah I agree with both of those things

lol "tiger woods of politics" is ominous for sure

― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy)

mozart is worse, you know where mark hamill got his joker laugh right?!?

i mentioned in another thread that she got numbers and things wrong and it was kind of embarrassing (what the branches of government were, some medicare numbers; I think there may have been something else). I think she does better when speaking in societal goals; hence, the new green deal, which seems to kind of leave the specifics out but makes sense as an aspiration. what am I saying? sorry i'm high.

also it seems fairly clear to me now that she's the heir to bobby kennedy and obama; I can't think of anyone else in the Democratic Party since who inspired as much devotion in their fanbase while so young.

dare i say the crazy right hates her as much as hilary, obama, and bernie sanders combined.

-- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept.

Can we plz not parrot GOP talking pts in this thread k thx

The “welp nothing we can do cuz it would require destroying life as we know it” nihilism is their main argument against taking any kind of action. Stop encouraging this viewpoint.

Most people shouldn’t be permitted to drive cars

"most" - who? "permitted" - by whom?

Anyone who’s able to ride the bus; the State.

ok good times!

Stop encouraging this viewpoint.

i'm sorry, i didn't realize GOP operatives were trawling this thread for rhetorical ammunition. i'll be more circumspect in the future.

this is for a different thread (for example, the climate change thread), but i think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the viewpoint that meaningful action on climate change would involve some changes that seem unthinkable to many people today (like confronting the idea that maybe we can't grow exponentially grow the economy ad infinitum). not everyone agrees. there are plenty of people that think that economic growth and environmental protection aren't inherently at odds with each other. i used to be of that opinion of myself, and it is certainly the prevailing viewpoint of most politicians who advocate for the environment. it makes a lot of political sense to hold that view, and regardless of the reality of climate change, it may be the most effective point of view to hold, in terms of trying to promote beneficial policies (which i think is where shakey is coming from). theoretically, it is possible to grow the economy in an environmentally friendly way, but i think we blew straight past that point. there's only so much time that one can say "if we make X and Y changes within the next 20 years, we'll be ok". i've been hearing that since i was a kid. i think we're past that time now, and now we're entering the territory of having to make fundamental changes that seem unthinkable to many people today.

it's true that holding the point of view that fundamental changes are required isn't exactly politically savvy, or at least that's been true in the past. but imo it's perfectly reasonable as a personal point of view, and especially on an internet thread.

Nothin but net

another 'trying to make her look bad but making her even cooler' moment

the things about her history in this tweet, while indeed not disqualifying her in any way, are lies

the video of her explaining political corruption posted slightly upthread is brilliant, all over the internet, and speaks to a very novel talent for social media communication that is well beyond her old-guard competition.

the right don't seem to know what to do without a woman to froth at the mouth over; the refreshing thing about aoc is that she makes them look like the mouth-frothing lunatics they are

we'll see how she holds up to thirty fucking years of this shit

there is a very particular, and desirable talent that very few people have for saying very complicated things very simply without simplifying them. That video is almost like "ways of seeing" for ethics and oversight in contemporary governance. This talent for plainspokennes seems particularly crucial in the age of trump, where simple formulations are seen to be incredibly winning in capturing public imagination. MAGA, take back control. what distinguishes AOC is that her formulations aren't just meaningless iterations of primal nativist chest-beating.

Mozart is in the bad place. ijs

tbh "fighting global warming" in any sense would really mean a profound transformation in human civilization -- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept. nor are there really any mechanics to effect it. so we're doomed imo.

― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This politician is good but we're fucked anyway is a good attitude I guess.

some of my antipathy towards Green parties stems from a feeling that we are fucked anyway, and some of their gestural politics might see them throw disableds under a bus to save knotty-faced sea squirrels or whatever.

shall we see the (UK) Green party policy towards the disabled

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/dy.html

have a read

I am just generalising about Green ideology and how I feel where it might end up, not saying it is a perfect pov. But lots of people are having as rough an existence as the planet is rn.

one thing I do usually notice is that (and this doesn't always hold true) people who care about the planet also care about the well-being of the unprivileged, and vice versa

I wish someone would explain to some of these lovely people that many disabled ppl need single-use plastic straws, for starters.

Green politics seems like the ultimate utopian "socialism in one country" thing where unless the whole planet is unequivocally committed to it, it's localised pressure groups - pissing into the wind. I mean even if the whole planet was committed to the cause, how many centuries could we delay The Great Dying 2.0 by?

I am not so green that I don't use still disposable plastic straws on occasion although I've picked up a nifty pack of stainless steel ones for home use. I have gone through a TON in my life. More than most people I think, as there was a period when I used them as a jaunty affectation. What is your particular use for them, calzino?

I don't use them, I'm not disabled - just know ppl who are and say they can't use metal ones.

I mean even if the whole planet was committed to the cause, how many centuries could we delay The Great Dying 2.0 by?

I really, really get this feeling, but it's essentially the path to giving up all together no? Ie lol we're all gonna die. I'd dread a world where the centrists or the godforaken libdems are the most 'left'/utopian politicians around, but it seems you've abandoned hope on the place of idealism in politics?

in theory i like the paper ones but in practice they turn to mush in about 30 seconds

"I don't use them, I'm not disabled - just know ppl who are and say they can't use metal ones."

why?

I had friends virtue signaling all over the damn facebook when banning these in SF was being discussed; they'd never once seemed to care about the disabled prior (I mean personally I'm sure they did but they really wanted to make a show of "what about the disableds!") but none of the arguments were very cogent. There are paper straws. You can use them. Sure they taste a bit gunky but many places have used them for years and you do get used to them.

shut the fuck up dickhead, I'm not even wasting my time on you.

That escalated quickly

sorry a bit rude, but when ppl display extreme ignorance + use "virtue signalling" an internal switch goes in me.

just curious if you guys have read the GP FAQ bc it's extraordinarily ambitious - it's honestly v hard for me to imagine it being implemented let alone asking for something even more dramatic: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5729035/Green-New-Deal-FAQ.pdf

what are AOC's environmental stances, I assume they are good ones

My hope is that AOC inspires more working-class people to get into politics. If you can lay out your convictions plainly, (assuming they're inclined towards building an actual viable future for living people) and make clear your positions haven't already been bought and sold, no one will care about gaffes.

Anyone who’s able to ride the bus; the State.

― Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, February 8, 2019 3:36 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol ilu

apparently that FAQ might be fake - sorry if so!

quoting Alan Moore

in theory i like the paper ones but in practice they turn to mush in about 30 seconds
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, February 8, 2019 1:14 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

personally I just avoid beverages. simplifies things.