Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

But it's not a tone negative ad at all? It's uplifting, with strings and everything. They're linking themselves to people like Terry Crews. It's not any more negative, dark and violent, than it would be if they linked themselves to policemen, for instance.

I mean is this any different than the Nike thing really? they know which way the wind is blowing.

i disagree. ppl fighting, ppl catcalling, ppl being abusive, "the best a man can get, or is it" [or whatever the exact idiom was]

the nike thing was uplifting imo in a way this wasn't. they used a controversial figure but they studiously avoided negative themes and attitudes

I don't know who Terry Crews is so it means nowt to me.

yeah I also agree with Mordy, it's a weird-ass commercial with a very dreary vibe

a terrorized little boy in his worried mother's arms etc

Doing a ctrl+f on the 10-Q, Gillette is mentioned some 38 times, but this portion seems most relevant:

Grooming: We compete in shave care and appliances. In Shave
Care, we are the global market leader in the blades and razors
market. Our global blades and razors market share is nearly
65%, primarily behind the Gillette franchise, including our
Fusion, Mach3, Prestobarba and Venus brands. Our
appliances, such as electric shavers and epilators, are sold
under the Braun brand in a number of markets around the world
where we compete against both global and regional
competitors. We hold nearly 25% of the male shavers market
and over 50% of the female epilators market.

From what I can see in terms of market share, they hold a bigger one there than in nearly anything else; but the overall segment is a lower contributor to revenue. The only other named brand I see that's anywhere close is Bounty paper towels at 40%.

P&G is actually a client of my company's. (NB we do not do advertising/marketing but are involved in their corporate communications/investor relations.) My guess is that, as speculated above, this is designed to appeal more to women than to men, since women make something like 70% of the average household's retail shopping purchase decisions. So yeah, they're trying to be perceived as "woke" so the people who do the shopping will buy Gillette for their male partners/husbands even if another brand is on sale.

What is the contribution to profit though -- razor cartridges are probably a very high-margin product, whereas paper towels are probably not.

That is true, also Fusion cartridges require a collateralized loan to purchase nowadays. tbh I'm not interested in looking into it much further, but 65% market share in a product segment is "We could make an ad of a monkey pissing into its own mouth" territory.

It takes forty seconds until the voiceover says 'but something finally changed'. After that people start smiling and it says 'we believe in the best in men'. And the strings intensify. It's clearly meant to be an uplifting ad.

My guess is that, as speculated above, this is designed to appeal more to women than to men, since women make something like 70% of the average household's retail shopping purchase decisions

this seems plausible to me fwiw i don't have any inside information but i could see this ad appealing to women, both if they're buying on behalf of their spouses and if gillette (as was speculated above) is trying to combine its brands into one unisex brand

xp maybe it's just a misfire?

Anyway you're all overlooking the real story

Today, we live in a world in which brainpower is the new currency of success. pic.twitter.com/a3McYUuGXD

— Nathan Bernard (@nathanTbernard) January 15, 2019

x-post: Yeah, sure, you can think it's a bad uplifting ad. But if we speculate what the intention is, then it's not that strange. They're trying to align themselfs with positive attitudes, bravery, kindness, honesty.

i just rewatched and i disagree with your reading tbh.

"bullying, the metoo movement against sexual harassment, toxic masculinity. is this the best a man can get? is it?”

images of men sadly/sombering looking in the mirror at themselves. an old gillette commercial being broadcast on a screen is torn apart by a bunch of young boys chasing another boy.

texts that say “Freak. you’re such a loser. everyone hates you.” a mom holding her upset son and trying to comfort him.

“we can’t hide from it. it’s being on far too long.”

images of sexual harassment, catcalling, objectification of women. will arnett?? men laughing freakishly at this.

“making the same old excuses. boys will be boys.” long line of men all saying over and over boys will be boys like an adult swim interlude.

shot of reporter talking about allegations of sexual assault. “but something finally changed, and there will be no going back. because we believe in the best of men.” clip of man saying “men need to hold other men accountable.”

clip of man saying “smile sweetie” and another man says, “c’mon.”

“to say the right thing. to act the right way. some already are.” boys still chasing other boy. guy leers at woman and friend tells him not cool. a man tells his daughter “I am strong” and she repeats it. two boys are wrestling and a dad runs over to break them up shouting “guys!”

voiceover: “but some is not enough. because the boys watching today will be the men of tomorrow."

it's pretty dark straight through, shows images of violence and abuse straight through, is shot in a weirdly dark and alienating way, and ends up with "some is not enough," ie still angry and negative. it's really not uplifting at all. again - you can like the message and think it's a good message but is it good advertising?

jesus lads its a fuckin advert

yes exactly that's my point

Lol

normally when you're doing advertising you want ppl to associate positive feelings and ideas with your brand so that they feel inclined to buy it. ads even with positive messages that are mostly dark and foreboding and that make their customers feel bad and lacking seem questionable to me in terms of being "good advertising." nb maybe no press is bad press and ppl are talking about it, it's going viral etc so acc to some standards it is a success. but it does seem worth asking who this is for and what it's supposed to do.

What a weird advert, drawing a contrast between the good - Gillette men! - and the bad. Clearly no advert has ever done this before.

Several people has said it made them feel good, btw, perhaps it's just you who don't like the message

xp fear and worry can actually be super-effective advertising/marketing techniques if deployed correctly, I have no real opinion on whether that's what P&G is accomplishing here. I'm sufficiently entertained by the Piers Morgans of the world telling on themselves that I've gotten my dollar's worth.

I like the ad; it effectively brings up emotion. At least it isn't bikini babes shaving tennis balls.

brad u can ilxmail me anytime if u want a penpal

― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, January 15, 2019 10:47 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

silby thank you! my ilxmail doesn't work bc it's associated with a dead email address, but you can email me anytime you want too (it's brad.david.nelson at gmail)

Several people has said it made them feel good, btw, perhaps it's just you who don't like the message

it's true that i think the ad conflates various behaviors wrongly (boys wrestling on the grass should not necessarily be what we mean by toxic masculinity and i question how 'boys will be boys' is being sued) tho the general argument that men should be respectful towards women and one another is one i strongly cosign. i'm not sure an advertisement is a great place for this kind of work to be done but otoh i do believe in the power of media images and i think something like this could empower ppl to stand up to their inappropriate associates by modeling the right behavior (and shame ppl for the wrong kind of behavior by de-normalizing it). so i'm not saying it's all bad. i think it's just a mystery that this is a commercial. tbph the only reason i posted it was bc i thought it was lol that silby's initiative was coming true - i had never considered that "fight masculinity by shaving" could be utilized to sell shaving products but obv that is why i don't get paid the big bucks.

I haven't watched the ad, but the whole idea of corporate advertising co-opting the struggle to define social equality in order to sell more of X just sickens me.

I do kinda agree with that, and it's why I don't really get the uplifting feels from the ad as well. I'm just saying that looking at the filmic choices, it's clearly meant to be uplifting. And I don't think it's a weird or abnormal ad. The sell is basically: 'Some men are shitheads. But you're not. Right? Buy Gillette!'

that bernard tweet made me lol unreasonably loudly in my office

Wait, Ana Kasparian *is* Armenian

man, libs couldn't be any more obvious with that misdirect, trying to throw us off the obvious symbolism of a misinterpretation of the phrase "young turks" by using an actual armenian who works for the show of that name as cover

what would Don Draper make of all this?

you mean the Real Man of Yore?

https://www.theonion.com/prego-marketing-new-marinara-as-the-premiere-sauce-for-1821421930

it's just a mystery that this is a commercial

every cosmetics brand in the world has, for the past 2-3 years, been trying to position themselves as "transparent" and "ethical" and right-on and yes of course it's about getting that ethical dollar but they take it seriously as a trend they need to be fully on board with, which is kind of.. good?

nothing about marketing is good including mad men and feeding the children of ppl employed in marketing

laser is really not that bad at all

marketing just is

Mordy OTM all the way.

nothing about marketing is good including mad men and feeding the children of ppl employed in marketing

― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, January 15, 2019 4:37 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But I gotta feed Tiana, mayne

Finally something me and darragh are in full agreement on

i'm sure you guys are gonna say some stuff that would make me feel bad but w/darragh there's a 50% chance i wouldn't really understand the post

it's be like

oh fer christ's luck lads, are we no tae bin marketing on the morn or are ye really that thick?

Not able to watch video atm but descriptions of the commercial itt make me think of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgg6tZEXm5A

If you are a man who is upset about the Gillette commercial, you should smile more. You are so much prettier when you smile.

— John Lurie (@lurie_john) January 15, 2019

if you are a man posting that joke you should eat cyanide

ums why you gotta do me like that man why

haha sorry man u made me look in the mirror abt myself I had to lash out

poor shaving technique fyi

i am not entirely sure what cause i might have to be offended that procter & gamble are using their corporate clout to speak out against toxic masculinity

having said that maybe the ad is offensive in some way, i haven't watched it because seriously it's an ad, i go out of my way to avoid ads not to watch them

it's unlikely to affect my consumer behavior either way considering i don't even know what products are owned by procter & gamble these days.

similarly, i admit that i've never been much for the lounge lizards but suggesting that john lurie eat cyanide... well, i don't know, that's probably just how people converse on twitter, right?