Nirvana: ENOUGH already!

yep!

NWA's #1 was a result of billboard shifting to soundscan rather than traditional label payola.

That millisecond rest that growl puts before the downbeats of the chorus of teen spirit is pretty great. You can hear it on the studio recording but it’s even more pronounced on the live set that flappy posted above

Bleach is a fantastic album imo

xp tho the sheer magnitude of country music's success was a surprise post-soundscan, there was abundant evidence for like a year leading up to its introduction that the country format was growing rapidly. country music was not quietly doing garth brooks-level business for decades undetected.

No, of course, but Billboard had seriously underestimated the sales of Randy Travis, Yoakam, Clint Black, Rosanne Cash, etc

Did grunge sound like a foreign country to someone who was 12 years old in 2001?

― the F word, the N word, raunchy sex, your name it (thewufs), Tuesday, January 8, 2019 8:05 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was 9 in 2001, I got Nevermind for Xmas that year. By the time the greatest hits came out a year later I was completely obsessed, had all the Outcesticides & many other bootlegs, remember waiting months to hear "You Know You're Right." At the time, third/fourth? wave grunge bands were all over MTV: Staind, Puddle of Mudd, Creed, 3 Doors Down... it was obvious to me at the time that this was runoff, and even though I loved Limp Bizkit, Korn, and Linkin Park (who are all more distinct than the other bands I mentioned that were straight carbon copies), they didn't have the depth or artistry that Nirvana did, and they never would. I was young but Nirvana's era seemed a million miles away to me, Kurt had already attained sainthood. at the same time, the pop punk bands like Green Day, blink-182, Sum 41, Jimmy Eat World, et al. were all doing their own thing but there was still a reverence and respect for Kurt (cf. the "Come As You Are" reference in blink's suicide song). He loomed over everything.

So that golden era - Nirvana, Pumpkins, Hole - didn't feel foreign, just a brilliant era that we were living in the shadow of, putting up with a worse, diluted version, with no one rising to their heights artistically.

System of a Down were a bracing one-off. "Chop Suey!" is the only song I remember hearing in that era and just being completely floored, perplexed, confused, overwhelmed - just WTF is this?? (in the best way)

when i was 11 in 2001 i heard nirvana mostly in the context of "smells like teen spirit" getting played by my classmates at the middle school talent show and hearing my brother tell my dad in the car that he heard it was supposed to the one of the best songs ever according to some magazine. i was like, okay, it's fine if you're into that kinda thing... but honestly it did feel very distantly removed from other music that just felt more vital and urgent to me. on some level i suspected the received wisdom was part of why so many my age seemed to like it, in the same way they liked beatles music that i didn't give a fuck about. i never *felt* it the way i did "chop suey"

pearl jam/eddie vedder was far more influential to the sound of mainstream rock music in the late '90s/early '00s than nirvana

True... now that is some music I could never connect to

I wonder if any prom theme went for a nirvana song over pearl jam’s Black or even some Red Hot Chili Peppers song.

i was actually there and have told this story elsewhere on ILM.

it was August 17, 1990 and i was going to see a band called Sonic Youth at the Hollywood Palladium on Sunset Boulevard. in these days we were typically late for shows, still kicking myself for being late for a Pale Saints show but i regress. if you notice the above date, it was 13 months before Vevermind came out. Nirvana were the opening band of three bands this night. i knew when i was watching the show i was experiencing something special and might have a story for the rest of my life. the performance that night blew my mind, i had no idea who the fuck Nirvana was but they put on a show for the ages. i remember Kurt climbing speakers and then threw himself off. i really thought he was going to hurt himself. i also remember thinking there is no way any band can follow what i just witnessed. i was right for the next band as they sucked or really could not come on after Nirvana. Sonic Youth were on point that night and had a great show. it was almost like they knew they had to do something special because of the Nirvana buzz that was in the Palladium that night.

flash forward about a year and a half later. a bunch of us were actually going to another show, i want to say it was the Blur/Pulp show but i could be wrong. we turned on KROQ and was listening to whatever they were playing. it happened to be request night and so they played "Smells Like" first, next request was "In Bloom and then "Come As You Are" which was all fine because they were singles, but why i'm telling this story is because the next request, which they were doing live on the air, was "Breed." anyways all the request were for Nevermind straight through. we could not turn off the radio as it felt like history, when did this band take over KROQ? they even played "Endless, Nameless" as the last caller said we have to finish with the hidden track don't we? i have never heard a whole album requested like that before, it just felt like a moment, yes "Smells Like" was starting to get big but it was a movement that i had never experienced before.

i also saw like the third to last US show they ever played but that is another story...

> Nirvana were the opening band of three bands this night.

early STP was the other band lol

pearl jam/eddie vedder was far more influential to the sound of mainstream rock music in the late '90s/early '00s than nirvana

― bros before HOOS (voodoo chili), Tuesday, January 8, 2019 11:40 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dunno if i agree w this actually. or maybe i think the influence is just more obvious when someone is 'sounding like pearl jam' than when nirvana flows through their music, like nirvana created a blueprint (harmonic/melodic) that ppl could attach different sounds to whereas pearl jam was more like an overall feel and so you *know* when someone is biting pearl jam but (give or take a puddle of mudd) most of nirvana's influence became such a part of the fabric ... idk maybe i'm tripping.

Thing is that Nirvana are still a very unique sounding band, like loads of can approximate the thrashy punk energy and the pop choruses but there are very few bands who can get anywhere near Kurt's sudden register shift, let alone the distinctive zombie lurch that a lot of their songs have. And yeah Grohl's drums are central to songs like In Bloom and Scentless Apprentice.

I was in full hipster mode as Nirvana emerged, college radio dj'ing and hearing a dozen new records and going to two gigs every week, and playing in hopeless bands. From this perspective, the shock was that Nirvana ended up being the anointed ones, singing to Geffin for tons of money and hitting big with noise intact.

By the late-80s there was a clear pipeline for "alternative" bands to get a sizable profile, and there was a lot of commercial niches one could occupy between, say, Stickmen with Rayguns and R.E.M.

SPIN was on every newsstand, and Rolling Stone had a college radio chart made up of mostly major label acts. It took a few album/tour/fanzine cycles for any given band to raise a profile. So the thing was, once a band had major-label promotion behind them, there were already in their second phase. To someone getting all their tips from fanzines, opening acts and word of mouth, this felt like selling out. There was excitement when Husker Du signed with full creative control, like they might put out something as harsh as "Plans I Make" on Warner Bros. But that side of them had burnt off.

Stickmen sounds pretty close to early Sub Pop, now that I re-listen. Throb, sarcasm, and the skidding feedback. I think the term "grunge" may have even been tossed around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iiK0963YU8

"Grungy" was an adjective I recall us all using at the radio station to describe records coming through starting around '87, especially as Sabbath and Stooges became ascendant influences on bands moving out of their hardcore roots. You didn't want to say "metallic", even if Metallica and Celtic Frost were in rotation. 'Cause saying the word "metal" connoted pop metal for the most part. Green River were definately grungy, and were definately rising through the zine network with their Sabbath/Stooges sound. Summer of 88, Nirvana came through town when I was out of town, and made a big impression. I knew I'd missed something. I'd seen the U-Men a few years before. Soundgarden's early records went through the playlist bin and got enough attention that putting out an album on SST was a logical step, as did singing and getting marketed as a metal band. When I first heard Mudhoney's "You Got It", I thought it was gonna be huge. But like "Love Removal Machine" huge. That seemed like the upper limit for a band like that.

Bleach took off among my friends over the course of 1990. A friend sent me "Negative Creep" on a mixtape and it blew me away - Sonic Youth and Motorhead mashed together! In the context of the time and scene, Bleach was a record that ticked a lot of boxes. They might have put out the best Sub Pop record yet. But there was a feeling that some other Washington band might quickly surpass them. I was shocked when SPIN reported that they'd signed for a huge sum of money. As much as loved Bleach, I didn't think it was leading anywhere. Nevermind sounded slick in comparison on first listen. It took me a few plays to adapt to the glossier sound, but as it climbed the charts there was a sense of delight that a track like "Territorial Pissings" was headed into millions of teen bedrooms. Nirvana were the first band that moved through the system quickly enough that their spikes stayed sharp.

Can you go on about the unusual chord sequences and melodies?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMUkMGNX0Uk

My only Nirvana memories are that I had heard "Bleach" more or less when it came out and wasn't that impressed by it or much anything from Seattle at that point. My friends went to see them play at tiny JC Dobbs in Philly, but I blew it off. I assume it was this show?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDDLhq3Rpmo

I didn't really think about the band much again until I several months later actually got a phone call from a friend in Texas who was raving about "Smells Like Teen Spirit." I remember checking it out on MTV and thinking, yeah, that's pretty cool! If I'm being honest, though, I liked the first Pearl Jam album (which came out a couple of months before Nevermind?) more, but none of my hip friends wanted to see them at the Troc six months or so after that Nirvana show. And you might be thinking, Pearl Jam bleh, classic rock, etc., and you might be right. But my memory of the two bands is that I never heard "Ten" blasting out of cars in the school parking lot, but within a few months every jackass was blasting Nirvana. (I want to say, from memory, that blasting Pearl Jam became more of a thing with the next album, but who knows.)

> Nirvana were the opening band of three bands this night.

early STP was the other band lol

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli),

The name of that in between band was STP but wasn't Stone Temple Pilots. I remember them being all female or had a female lead singer.

ah yeah that was Julie Cafritz's band after Pussy Galore

I'm gonna politely disagree with you, here's the horse's mouth:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/uncategorized/scott-weiland-recalls-that-1990-vegas-concert-with-nirvana-and-sonic-youth/

counterpoint:

http://www.grungeforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17050

...or do you think Weiland was so jacked up he imagined he was there? I see that there was this band with Julie & I recognize Jackie (from Dustdevils):

https://i.imgur.com/fzPt3VF.jpg

I could not convince any of the jerks in my high school social circle to drive into LA for that show, so I missed it. (I did not have a car at the time and my parents wouldn't let me drive one of theirs that far)

It wasn't 1990, but I did see early Stone Temple Pilots shortly after with one-time Sonic Youth labelmates fIREHOSE & The Butthole Surfers so it's not like they weren't ever openers on unusual lineups.

unplugged remains the thing i listen to the most from nirvana

I'm almost positive that Colonel Poo link is correct. I'm pretty sure I saw a Riot Girl band that night. I'm also positive it was a girl lead singer. I know Scott can be feminine but it was a all girl STP band that night.

Yeah, seems like Scott Weiland was in a fever-dream moment and probably didn't remember much of the 90s so he just inserted himself in to history naively.

sincerely dubious plate of scrambled eggs

from OP, alex always had such great turns of phrase

https://i.imgur.com/9gdMoKk.jpg

Setlist that night:

1. Love Buzz (Shocking Blue cover)
2. Floyd the Barber
3. Scoff
4. Dive
5. About a Girl
6. Spank Thru
7. Breed
8. In Bloom
9. School
10. Been a Son
11. Negative Creep
12. Blew

plus two hot bands

Weiland doesn’t say anything at all in the quotes about playing those shows; the reporter has obviously made a mistaken assumption, asked Weiland ~something or other~, and he has given a response about the two bands, without ever saying he remembers or played the gig.

in context, it seems more like someone asked him a question regarding his feelings for Sonic Youth and their influence

Man, Dustdevils. I haven't thought about them in a looooong while. Even when the major labels starting signing stuff they had no business signing, that era of early '90s noise never really escaped the margins, with the weird exception of Sonic Youth. That early Drag City/Matador stuff, AmRep, Sub Pop, Touch & Go ... just a total axis of guitar grind/grit.

There is def. an axis of 1980s/early-‘90s underground bands that didn’t “bubble up” (though many had members who found more success in other ‘90s bands) — Live Skull, Skunk, Death of Samantha, etc, etc.

Jesus, i was a disagreeable bastard, wasn't I.

HONOUR THE FIRE

Disarming thing about ILX is that it never goes away. I can age, grow, mature and start the natural process of mental erosion, but still....my frothy-mouthed opinions scream on in perpetuity here.

Dustdevils, great album cover

<3 alex u one of the greats

Cheers, but reading some of the stuff I scribbled here over the years is sobering with a severity no "Dry January" could ever hope to touch.

Don't look back, you can never look back.

He's an Artist..

I found the About a Son documentary to be lovely and compelling though also inevitably kind of sad.

My favorite example is probably Lithium--the first half of the chord progression is fairly common (D F#m Bm G), but the second half of the progression seems to modulate with every chord change (Bb C A C). Someone with more theory expertise can explain exactly what's going on, but that kind of progression is more common in, say, show tunes than rock music. It's surprisingly jaunty when you play it on the piano.

This is a good example. Bb works as bVI, which is a common chromatic substitutition for vi (Bm), borrowed from the parallel minor key; plenty of examples of this in Romantic music, e.g. Schubert's "Du bist die Ruh", m. 57. Interesting that it comes soon after the diatonic vi. ("Blackbird" puts them right after each other, btw.) C could suggest mixture from the Mixolydian mode (or maybe borrowing a dominant-functioning chord from the parallel minor key) but it's interesting that they use it before and after the diatonic A chord (V), which, of course, contains a C#, so the chromaticism is clear. Chris McDonald's "Exploring Modal Subversions in Alternative Music" (Popular Music, Vol. 9, No. 3 (Oct 2000), pp. 355-363) is pretty good on this broader subject. I could pass on a copy if anyone's interested in it and can't get their hands on one.

I think the glammiest, poppiest end of hair metal was already basically dead by 1990-91. It was probably bands like GNR and Metallica as much as anyone who drove the stake into its poodle-coiffed, coke-engorged heart. After that, even hair metal had to be a bit harder or smarter. Skid Row came across as darker and edgier than the glam bands of a few years earlier. This was also the era of progressive and technical hair metal like Queensryche, Tesla, Extreme, Winger, etc. Sure they had long hair, but these guys were serious musicians, man. It was kind of a late-mannerist phase, at least in retrospect. When Nirvana came along, it wasn't thirst for "authenticity" so much as for the hooks and hummable melodies that had slowly drained out of the increasingly grown-up pop metal scene.

― o. nate, Tuesday, January 8, 2019 9:32 PM (six days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also 'alternative metal' stuff like Living Colour, Faith No More, and King's X was getting played on the rock stations I listened to at 10-11 in 89-90. Even at that age, I could tell that 'hair metal' had run its course by 1990; it wasn't even necessarily that shocking that the next thing in rock might become something more like the 'alternative' music MuchMusic was playing on CityLimits. I wouldn't have suspected how big it would be, though. It was still spine-tingling to hear "Teen Spirit" for the first time.

I know it's slowed down a full step on the record, but isn't the chord progression of Lithium (as played live / on a guitar)

Em Ab Db A C D B D

that's the same progression a step higher

except it should be E Abm Dbm

Yeah, the intervals are the same.