Who's the most famous superhero who has never died?

He died two times in a year (in 1996 as part of the events The Crossing and Onslaught) which might even be some kind of record?

Jesus

Feel like I recently read something about Sue Storm never having died before? I guess maybe unless you count Onslaught? She's even one of the very few who survived the death of the universe post-Secret Wars Mk II.

If I could make one sweeping change to superhero universes it would be to institute permadeath. Because really, wtf does death even portend at this point beyond the inconvenience of waiting for the decedent's inevitable resurrection?

I guess really, at this point, you do have to consider Secret Wars in any consideration of long-lived Marvel characters, which limits the potential pool to like a dozen characters.

I don't think Secret Wars should be counted, because everyone knew it would all be reversed. Tho of course everyone knew the other deaths would be reversed as well, but it still feels different to have the hero of comic book to be killed in his/her own title than to kill almost everyone in a crossover.

And yeah, Sue Storm was my first thought too. Has the Thing ever died, outside crossovers like Onslaught or Secret Wars?

shaft

Why wouldn't Secret Wars count? It was established that 616 was completely destroyed and reconstituted from scratch aside from a handful of survivors. Technically speaking, everyone in the Marvel U at present has only been around for a couple of years aside from like half the FF, Miles Morales, Thanos, etc.

Did they ever manage to kill Swamp Thing? He's basically immortal afaict (not to mention billions of years old).

jean grey has never died iirc

Well, if Secret Wars counts, then the answer has to be some DC hero... Dick Grayson?

xpost And yet has been cruelly saddled with emphysema for the entirety of her unbroken tenure.

iirc Swamp Thing was killed on Earth and then re-grew on some other planet

with great power comes great shortness of breath xp

i think dick grayson might be the answer here actually, good call tuomas

has dc's captain marvel/shazam ever died?

Deadman

iirc Swamp Thing was killed on Earth and then re-grew on some other planet

But that was my point: Swamp Thing has never actually been killed because he's essentially incorporeal. His bodies are just temporary shells that he abandons (or is forced out of). He's been thought dead on several occasions but he's never actually been rendered inert iirc.

(I've read the Moore-thru-Millar run on ST like a half dozen times so just trust my expertise on this particular subject if none other whatsoever.)

Yeah, but like I mentioned in the original post, I think stories where the reader is lead to think the character has died count too... I mean, Cap or Batman or the Human Torch didn't actually die either, but the stories were presented as if they did, and Marvel and DC could advertise them as "the death of...". So, similarly, since the Swamp Thing issue ended with his "death", I think it counts.

I guess we may just be splitting hairs at this point, but in the other examples you cite, it was like a minimum of six months before the fate of the character was revealed, whereas I don't believe Swampy was even 'dead' for an entire issue.

(Notable, perhaps, that Cap, Bats, and Swamps have been 'killed' by having been hurled into the timestream.)

(This would be Swamp Thing's third 'death' I'm referring to, after the one that kicked off Moore's run and the one that sent him into space.)

nah Swampy "died" in issue 53 and didn't appear again until the very end of issue 55, which was his funeral issue.

Sorry: Swampy wasn't 'dead' for an entire two issues. My bad.

apology accepted

Didn't Batman "die" in Final Crisis #6, and was revealed to be alive at the end of FC #7?

Coaster Man

proud that we managed to bog this thread down in excruciating nitpickery in less than an hour, good work team

'bog down' pun unintended but happy to take credit for it anyway

I never could have foreseen such an outcome wrt the topic at hand, so I'm as shocked as anyone.

So since it's established that pretty much everyone in the Big Two has 'died' at this point the real question is who has actually DIED died, like who has been decisively and graphically ground into hamburger on panel in such a way that their resurrection was unlikely at best?

all resurrections are unlikely tbf

Chuck? xp

barry allen literally disintegrating into dust seemed pretty final but then... geoff johns

Anyway, I'm sure you understand that by "death" I mean stories where the hero dies, and isn't immediately revealed to be alive, either in the same issue, or (if the "death" is a cliffhanger) at the beginning of the next one... Meaning that some gullible reader might actually think he has died for sure. Often the next issue following the death features other characters mourning the fallen hero etc.

Batman's death is kind of a borderline case, because he was revealed to be alive in the following issue, but DC had already advertised the death long in advance, and weren't the gaps between FC issue longer than normal too?

The original Cap Marvel remains dead, right? That's most likely because of they way he died, as even Marvel would probably think reversing a cancer death would be in bad taste.

Previously unknown sons and alternate universe counterparts of him have appeared, of course.

Yeah, him and Unca Ben are pretty much it. Jim Wilson also (for reasons likely similar to those you posit).

Oh wait, Ben was kinda sorta briefly resurrected during the recent Clone Conspiracy iirc.

since we're on the topic, i'd like to just take a moment to underline dc's uniquely weird decision to make superman's death - a colossal media event which brought tens of thousands of new eyes to comics - the result of a savage physical beating over the course of numerous issues, which must have been a v odd experience for those new readers

i can only assume mel gibson was taking notes for the passion of the christ

Has Bill Foster been brought back to life? That was a pretty disgusting death imo.

Has Namor ever died?

He was briefly beheaded a couple years back.

same

lol I have no idea what the answer to this question is but this discussion is p hilarious

realizing that ALL SUPERHEROES MUST DIE is like an article of faith with the big two now

As mentioned upthread, I don't think anyone has lasted longer than Dick.

xpost I guess it's still a reliable selling point? Even though everyone surely knows it's totally bogus by now?

presumably the audience just likes watching its heroes suffer, over and over. isn't there a term for this?

I sort of assumed some of the lower-tier X-Men would have gotten through it all without dying, but it seems like they've all been killed off and brought back at some point. Apparently Nightcrawler died, went to Heaven, and then BAMFED himself back to life.

According to Wikipedia, Tenzil Kem is present in some “Retroboot” Legion stories.

xpost Wait, what? No. She wasn't even in Morrison's NXM iirc. She did ride a giant projectile into deep space in Whedon's subsequent run but she was more just feared lost forever than presumed dead.

xp when? i don't remember that

In Superman #694, Matter-Eater Lad is revealed to have been masquerading as Mon-El's friend Mitch, owner of a local cafe. He reveals his identity by stepping in to save a woman trapped in a burning car, allowing Mon-El to continue fighting the larger threats.

As revealed in Adventure Comics (vol. 2) #8, Matter-Eater Lad is part of a secret team sent by the late RJ Brande to the 21st century to save the future in the Last Stand of New Krypton storyline.

rmde

(Total aside, but I just saw a news blurb the other day positing that Bendis may be doing a Legion book. You're welcome, fans!)

did Matter-Eater Lad ever die such that he could be resurrected?

xp Yeah, I saw that tease... sheesh

RE: Kitty - WHEDON not Morrison; memory failed me. She was presumed dead! Not being in the book means you're dead!
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/kitty-pryde/4005-3548/forums/she-cant-be-dead-can-she-416473/

I don't think Kitty's fate at the end of Whedon's run counts as death, because, A) by the end of the story she was still not dead, just incapacitated, and B) Whedon wrote it so that any future writer could easily bring her back, which is indeed what happened.

no way she never died and she was not presumed dead (which anyway isn't the same thing as being dead)

xp

Buuuuut at any rate she did die in Secret Wars so she's out of the running unfortch.

kitty pryde wasn't in secret wars!

xp thank god, i was afraid this was gonna turn into a semantic nerdfight about the death of kitty pryde
wait never mind apparently we're gonna do this

Every mention of Secret Wars itt is threatening to devolve into a 'who's on first?' routine.

FTR: the 2015 Secret Wars involved the wholesale destruction of the Marvel multiverse and everyone in it with the exception of like a dozen or so characters who managed to escape that fate through various means.

I honestly think it makes more sense to count what happened to Kitty Pride as an example of what we're talking about, rather than something like the entirety of the Marvel Universe being gone for a couple of pages in Secret Wars. I know she definitely didn't die, but I like Old Lunch's notion that she was 'feared lost forever'. Which is kinda also what happened to Batman in Final Crisis. It's not as good a thread title: 'Who's the most famous superhero who has never been feared lost forever?' But it's kinda what we're talking about, no? Noble sacrifices, leaving the title for a while, as other characters fill the void.

I have an extra-nerdy answer to

have TMNT ever died?

which is that in the exclusive bonus mini-comic included in TMNT role-playing-game post-holocaust supplement Road Hogs, all the TMNT are dead except for an ancient, dementia-riddled Raphael, living in a post-nuclear-war future

Old Man Raph is the winner then

The logical conclusion of this kind of thing (effective superhero immortality) is those stores that Marvel likes to do — including recently — in which someone like Reed Richards or Steve Rogers or Thor or Logan is the last being alive at the end of time, witnessing the heat death of the universe, etc.

Who’s the most famous super-character (hero or villain) to have died and stayed dead? No clones, no alternate universe or timeline versions, etc.

I guess that was already sort of discussed above.

I started a thread on that subject a long time ago:

Major superheroes/villains who died and have stayed dead - are there any?

those stores that Marvel likes to do — including recently — in which someone like Reed Richards or Steve Rogers or Thor or Logan is the last being alive at the end of time, witnessing the heat death of the universe, etc.

Sniffing through Alan Moore’s bins for old teabags they can dry out & try to use again.

Which Moore story did that, I can't recall?

Wildstorm Spotlight #1

How could I have forgotten such a popular + feted work.

it was pretty feted at the time!

https://www.tor.com/2012/07/09/the-great-alan-moore-reread-mr-majestic-voodoo-and-deathblow/

That seems to have come out years after Books of Magic #3 tho, which has a similar plot.

iirc that has magic people in a magic chamber ruminating on a time when various different magic worlds have passed into history? the Moore story is "Superman one immortal superhero is the last being left alive at the end of time, witnessing the heat death of the universe, etc"

Was specifically gonna mention that BoM issue (which is rad)!

iirc that has magic people in a magic chamber ruminating on a time when various different magic worlds have passed into history?

no, Mr. E takes the kid "walking" to the end of time, it is def the heat death of the universe and is literally described as such (that's when Death shows up!)

okey doke! I still think that's "magic" though

maybe I'm conflating with the Paul Johnson issue re ppl ruminating in a chamber

it is magic, I don't see why that matters. I mean, Thor is magic.

it's magic that takes them there, but they are literally *there* and they interact with various entities that can see them.

The lure of alliteration overpowered my brane.

― Hootie and the Banshees (Old Lunch), Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22 PM

That's the ghost of Stan Lee trying to possess you.

Kamen Rider, Ultraman, Super Sentai team, Bananaman, Darna, One Punch Man, Kick Ass & Hit Girl, The Mask, Witchblade, The Incredibles? All guesses.

The Spirit started by faking his death? Didn't The Phantom or The Shadow do something similar? The Crow and Spawn died in their origin and I bet they probably died more times.

I presume Hellboy died at some point?

Storylines discussed above sound incredibly stupid, even by DC and Marvel standards. I guess some characters are just killed off so we can get sentimental about them and then show them looking ICONIC *retch* when they come back.

Hellboy's death is one of those 'death is not the end' stories, as quite a few of the last Hellboy comics are after he is dead and Mignola came to the end (for now). The current series are working in the 50s etc filling in stories earlier in the cycle.

Was Swift from The Authority ever killed?

Didn't she die in a really disgusting way? I've never read it, but I remember that.

https://www.cbr.com/comic-characters-went-heaven-hell/

https://www.cbr.com/major-superheroes-avoided-dying

Bryan Cronin recently addressed this question over at CBR, and it seems to correct answers are Nightwing, Daredevil, and Batgirl. He doesn't seemt to count DD's recent "death", though.

He also doesn't count Nightwang's recent death, but weirdly does count Deadpool's.

The Stephanie Brown Batgirl died also, so his last option is ruled out. (Yes I know he makes the Babs Gordon distinction but there are something like 20 years in age between the 2 versions currently in continuity - yes, I do mean Babs only versions - so all bets are off. See also Wally West, of which there are two different continuity versions at the moment and I'm willing to bet the dead one won't be dead by the end of Heroes In Crisis.)

Doesn't stand up to the academic scrutiny we applied above I'm afraid.

Wally West, of which there are two different continuity versions at the moment

christ i fuckin hate dc

By different, I mean the two versions of Babs are arguably the same one excepting their age - both shot by the Joker, both cured, both had a relationship with the Wang when he was Robin - but one experienced all that while at high school and the other one as an adult.

The two versions of Wally though are the ginger 90s title one (who might be currently dead) and the black Johnsiverse one.

i refer you to my earlier comment

See, Marvel does this stuff too but they're often able to make it coherent and fun. DC just seems like they're completely unaware of the narrative conventions which might render their bad ideas at least readable.

pro-tip for dc: rebooting your entire line every few years makes it really fuckin hard to care about what's happening month-to-month, especially when the detritus of those reboots leaves you with multiple versions of the same character which i'd venture to suggest shows your reboots aren't actually doing anything good or useful anyway

It's pretty sad that my Marvel/DC pull list went from maybe 75/25 pre-Flashpoint to a fairly consistent 98/2 ever since (and almost none of that 2% has been in-continuity material).