WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

Would have been great to do a Steven Seagal "Executive Decision" moment, and immediately solve the vanished squid puzzle in favor of some other alien dilemma, or even forward motion on the Dalek plot. FFS, The Doctor scans the first person met, then not the second, who's just been in the same room with the vanished alien? It gets tiring with long-running sci-fi shows, when previous possession or body swap plots are forgotten, to allow the plot to continue. Makes me feel like Ebert's Idiot Rule instead relies on the audience being stupid.

Has there been any in-story explanation as to why nobody remembers nothing of the various Dalek, Cyberman, Zygon, etc, invasions/transplantations of Earth over recent years? Did Amy Pond's amnesia afflict everyone, even those in her future? Or am i looking for Chibnall to make more of an effort than he can be bothered with.

The Dalek reveal was news to me - though I think I'd seen someone speculate based on the idea that every season has to have them (though 6 didn't) - and tbh the "most dangerous warrior in the universe" in the teaser + the enormous teepee in the first scene had me joke about it immediately.

Dude, they literally recut the trailer to include a dalek voice saying 'exterminate' at the end and broadcast it on BBC1 in a prime slot on Christmas Eve (and showed it on BBC1 at least daily through the holidays).

There was also a Radio Times promotional seed on FB and Twitter with a new UPDATE headline daily going "BIGGEST HINTS YET THE DALEKS RETURN".

Er, okay? I didn't see any of those.

Series 6 did have a dalek in a flashback during the finale iirc.

Anyway, the point being made is that the BBC used the primary tools at their disposal - except maybe Chibbers' appearing on The One Show - to pointlessly spoil an episode that had been kept successfully secret for 6 months a week before broadcast (seriously, this series has seen less leaks than any other NuWho to date) to an audience that were going to watch it anyway.

i didn't know until this thread! (was saving the ep for when the rest of my family is back in town)

but.. it's ok, is a dalek in dr who really a big surprise? 🤔

Really? Dalek in an episode of Doctor Who - not a surprise. Dalek in a specific episode of Doctor Who which spends 15-20 minutes setting up a mysterious baddie - meant to be a surprise, yeah. And if the bbc tell you in advance it's a dalek then that prolonged mystery building period gets really fucking tedious.

I was in the same boat as sic though, I think if you follow any Doctor Who feeds at all then this was near impossible to stay unspoiled on. Still my own fault of course, but it does feel more and more like the only way to properly enjoy a thing you're a fan of these days is to separate yourself entirely from the fandom of that thing.

Keep getting a thing where whenever JW is struggling through a lumpen chunk of expository dialogue, I imagine David Tennant or Matt Smith delivering the same lines and doing them properly.

Didn't hate yesterday's though, solo dalek stories are always better than massed dalek army stories and the home-made shell was fun. She seemed oddly comfortable with just killing it though? Especially if you compare it with eg Eccelston's solo dalek, or with pretty much any of the other other bad guys from the last season.

She argued with it all the way through, including a final warning - wasn't Ecclestone's first reaction to try to destroy it? I agree that it shared a lot of strengths with 'Dalek'.

I don't remember Tennant or Smith doing better with exposition - I had time to get tired of them, but I'm still happier with Whittaker at the moment.

wasn't Ecclestone's first reaction to try to destroy it?

Yep and then he came back from that, so this felt like a regression.

The arguing was performative for the sake of not looking mean to her mates. "Look, I'm giving it a chance, aren't I? I've tried to reason with it haven't I?". When the doctor knows full well reasoning with a dalek is a waste of time.

I don't have a major problem with this, I don't think we'd have a very fun show left if we never blew up another dalek. Just felt a little bit out of step with her other recent actions.

Only with her words, not her actions - the JW Dr has consistently argued against violence with her mouth, while carrying out or endorsing killing & explosions & mass slaughter.

& torture!

OK just saw it! I think it was fair enough that they killed the Dalek with old - sorry, I mean state-of-the-art - microwave parts. It was on the verge of enslaving all of humankind!

I was moved by Ryan and his dad's journey together - totally bought into all of it.

Lol at Daleks being spoiled - c'mon we find out about 15 minutes in. It's part of the setup, not the payoff.

Once the Dalek has slimed its way around archaeologist lady's waist I remark to the room, perhaps not really that hilariously, that the Dalek had better watch out if she decides to back in her chair really hard. Then how does she try, at the climax, to shake the fucker off but barging backwards into nondescript furniture to smoosh it. Called it! Of course what really got rid of it was the power of forgiveness but hey.

"to SIT back in her chair really hard"

Something else that became quite clear to me tonight was that er I like this Doctor but I've had my fill of this.. slightly Jerry Lewis vibe she leans on:

https://duaw26jehqd4r.cloudfront.net/items/3w2c3l2d1B2w2a1V0N15/Screen%20Shot%202019-01-02%20at%2023.02.40.png

The wireless conversation joke was fucking terrible and the drone joke

I was hoping for a focus on a dalek possessed human instead of a fairly standard dalek

The guardians of the dalek tombs did Fuck all

Try this then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Dalek

Chibbers is all, "You think that I had trouble juggling four people in the TARDIS? How about SEVEN!" How has this guy work for not to mention run any shows?

This is the first episode where I felt that Jodie was bad. Sure the writing was bad as ever but she really rose to its level this time.

Something else that became quite clear to me tonight was that er I like this Doctor but I've had my fill of this.. slightly Jerry Lewis vibe she leans on

Agree! But was thinking more like

http://waffleon.podbean.com/mf/web/vayr4/norman2.jpg
https://duaw26jehqd4r.cloudfront.net/items/3w2c3l2d1B2w2a1V0N15/Screen%20Shot%202019-01-02%20at%2023.02.40.png

So, I was thinking how I wish the next season wouldn't have one of those stories where the Doctor and companions get stuck on a space ship/space base/another isolated sci-fi setting, and they have to find a way to ward off an impending doom which threatens to kill everyone inside, because so far they've done of those at least one of those every season, and they're almost never among the best episodes...

arf

Yeh I guess the Troughton era might've been artifically elevated in my estimation by cool radiophonic musick, Mirrolon and general spillover from a fairly ambitious time in TV storytelling.

/

if loads of those stories weren't missing, I'm sure they'd be extremely watchable just by having Patrick Troughton and Frazer Hines in front of a camera together, regardless of how non-boundary-pushing they were

catching a bit of Seeds Of Death on Twitch this morning reminds me that those eras are usually hyper-watchable just for the 1960s ideas of futuristic design & furniture & clothing. This particular serial also including pretty good direction, especially with uncharacteristic pre-filmed-or-recorded and thus edited sequences!

They're running through most of the first 26 seasons again btw - streaming at twitch.tv/twitchpresents, approximate schedule in a google spreadsheet here

you've all missed Troughton off his tits at a foam party

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C-38EYbU5HM/T_wUhT7AInI/AAAAAAAAAQY/5_c_khsBEuI/s1600/seedsofdeathfunnyfoam.gif

Rewatching some of the early Matt Smith episodes, and it's such a relief to watch Doctor Who stories that are fun, funny and clever.

I wanted a therapeutic comfort read over the hols and read Paul Cornell's Virgin NA book, Love and War. It turned out to be pretty horrific, both in content and quality! The idea of the "manipulative" 7th doctor feels so wrong against Mccoy's performance, and not in a pleasing-cognitive-dissonance kind of way, which put Jodie Whitaker's still-awkward take into relief. Anyway, I love DW and it turns out my fandom-do-not-cross boundary is 1990s spin-off paperbacks, more than Chris Chibnall.

Because DW fans are nothing if sad optimists (or were, until recently) I will probably try reading one of the other authors though...

By the end of the NAs, Cornell is the man to go to for warm fuzzy character reunions, and indulgent fanservice. The best novels in the early years are definitely from the "let's push things forward" crew, though! (eg Cornell, Aaronovitch, Cartmel). Gatiss' Nightshade is, unsurprisingly, a nostalgic throwback, but also unsurprisingly, more to Quatermass and spooky-village-70s-teleplay stuff than any specific DW era.

(Andy Lane's All-Consuming Fire takes a similar "the TARDIS materialises in another genre this week" approach, teaming up the Doctor with Sherlock Holmes in a CS Lewis-style SF.)

Cornell's NAs are one of the single biggest influences on nu-Who, though, significantly in his interlacing of the emotional lives of the leads with the adventure melodrama. His original novel of Human Nature might be an easier access point for you?

The Missing Adventures are a safer bet for comfort reads, as they more-or-less functioned as a Virgin sop to fans who didn't want an up-to-date approach in their Who. Gareth Roberts did three Romana-II-and-K9 novels that are absolutely bang-on evocations of the Douglas Adams / Graham Williams era.

The manipulative Doctor is totally taken from the telly Seventh, though! Cornell just adds emotional depth behind the TV/Cartmel opacity. Kate Orman is later really good at blending McCoy's sad-eyed performance and the Dr's dedication to his companions with the secret-agenda motivations.

This particular serial also including pretty good direction

Now checking out Ambassadors Of Death on the stream because it's by the same director - have never seen the colourisation before and hoooo boy, I hope the DVD came with the option to watch a B&W transfer.

(annotation: 7-part 1970 story, with only the first episode held on 2" colour video; eps 2-7 sold for 1980s-etc repeats from b&w films-of-the-TV-screen with comopt soundtracks [ie low-quality compared to magnetic]; in 2002 most of the footage was colourised for VHS release from an American off-air home recording on NTSC Betamax, but this tape was too shitty to even get colour for entire episodes.)

Also one episode's cliffhanger is an upskirt of Liz Shaw's stunt double, yikes.

Cornell seems like a mensch, and L&W is pretty well-written considering it was his debut and written in his early twenties! But it pushes the manipulative stuff much, much further our than Remembrance/Fenric/etc - at least to my tastes, to the point where started not enjoying it. I need the Doctor to have at least some redemptive qualities! The period detail is charming, though - I love the renegade crusties plugging into the Matrix with LITERAL PLUGS from the backs of their necks. SO NINETIES.

Cornell's Ace is pretty too - you can REALLY see the NuWho influence there - like how much Moffat pinched from L&W for season 8 (the dead returning, the angry companion, the death of the boyfriend, etc) - although I prefer the Moffat version.

I think I will try an Orman and a (mild shudder) Roberts, though.

L&W was his second Who novel, and more disciplined than his first (which iirc has the Seventh so manipulative that he engineered the Sixth's falling over and hitting his head so that he would regenerate into Seven)

New series soundtrack is now out, and on Spotify. Sadly does not include a full-length version of the theme, the longest being the end titles at ~50 seconds, though it does have the Indian raga version too.

Love & War is building off of the books that came before it, which ramped up the 7th Doctor manipulation into what we get in Love and War; it's a lot less shocking in sequence than it is coming into it cold. (I jumped from Timewyrm: Genesis into No Future, which was DEFINITELY a narrative shock that only made sense when I went back and read the books that happened in the interim)

Also Nightshade is really, really good, low-key one of my favorites of the entire series

Yeah I went straight from rewatching Remembrance OTD for the first time in 25 years to Love and War and the dissonance was a bit shocking. I just want everyone to be friends! Also Ace, don't fall in love with a dreadlocked Irish redshirt! You're smarter than that Ace.

But yeah, I'll try one of the lightweight ones next, if I can find a 24 hour period on Amazon when they're not crazy $$$.

Shit, I mean 30 years, fucking hell.

If you have an electronic book reader, ilxmail me yr email address.

Done, thanks!!

Oxfam find

https://i.postimg.cc/3htvtqn0/43-C0-BFEA-CBA1-4-E09-8-E58-3-F22-AE4-D4693.jpg

The Alien Planets one I had! It has some good stuff in it.

I had Alien Monsters and it was the first time I read Philip K Dick.

Just listened to a Big Finish where River Song meets Missy and the script quality would totally have fit in with the most recent series.

I'm always surprised by Big Finish's ability to score (and pay) the regular actors, given that their audience must be the niche of a niche of a niche (and the bootlegs are pretty easy to find).

Just listened to a Big Finish where River Song meets Missy and the script quality would totally have fit in with the most recent series.

I can't tell if this is a diss or not.

I'm always surprised by Big Finish's ability to score (and pay) the regular actors,

It’s two or three days work a year, for ppl who otherwise might go two years between TV gigs, they get fed really well, and I’d guess staying involved with Who leads to more invitations to US conventions, for more money than Big Finish pay.

(and the bootlegs are pretty easy to find).

This goes for any commercially released audio with a fanbase, though (and online bootlegs of telly Who are far more widely available!)

I suspect a huge proportion of Big Finish subscribers buy everything and never listen to 95% of it.

^ Dr Who subscribers, that is, not the more nichey stuff they also do massive amounts of

It's a diss, sadly

My kids are still in disbelief that there are no new Doctor Whos for another year, so we've been spending sunday nights dipping into the other seasons. Funny how it feels like there's about a bazillion doctors for them to discover, even just from the Nu-era. Just finished the Silence in the Library 2-parter and I had forgotten just how fucking amazing River Song is. The kids were scared shitless - less of the Vashta Nerada and more with Donna's face being stuck on a plinth.

That's my favorite Davies-era episode.

I suspect a huge proportion of Big Finish subscribers buy everything and never listen to 95% of it.

― steven, soda jerk (sic)

one of the more frustrating parts of being a who fan is the vast amounts of deuterocanonical crap it generates. particularly so because i grew up in an age where doctor who _was_ the deuterocanonical stuff, some of which was amusingly dodge (take a bow, bill baggs) but a large portion of which was people not just sustaining but rebuilding the show into what it would become in 2005.

nowadays, though, it seems like a lot of the offline fanbase are people who define themselves by the merch, regardless of the quality. that's disappointing to me because i do want to actually talk about the show sometimes, and online discourse is, in general, poisoned beyond the point of usefulness

oh, i should probably read tom baker's book though, that sounds like it might be interesting

i guess i should ask here - is scratchman (do not make pun, do not make pun, do not make pun) any good?