US Politics December 2018: ~very legal and very cool~

being 'qualified' means nothing now, if it ever did

Being a truly post Obama figure helps too compared to the optics of running the person he beat.

i don't see her as being at all similar to hillary or john kerry

hate to be that guy but there's a whole thread for this

There was some skepticism over “qualified” having objective value in 2016 that has since been field tested

rogermexico should be banned from this thread

if liberals back away from a candidate like warren because they are afraid of how easily she could be demonized by sexists, then they are making a decision based on cowardice.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong about that though! I would pour champagne!

cowardice is the american brand.

it shouldn't be though. she should run and do it her way without listening to the focus-group types.

An interesting Twitter thread (which will apparently be deleted tomorrow, so read now):

1. I would just add one thing to this very good thread. (Check out Greg's book!) The question regularly comes up: how conscious is this on Trump's part? To what extent is it a strategy, something he is choosing? Is he trying to deceive us or has he just deceived himself? https://t.co/oVAznNr55o

— David Roberts (@drvox) December 30, 2018

Yes, thread is good. We the people need to own the fact that we let this happen.

if there’s one thing america is good at, it’s honest self-reflection about national shortcomings and taking rational action to address those issues

There should be a national conversation about it. Preferably taking place entirely on social media.

We the people need to own the fact that we let this happen.

to repeat myself: having never watched presidential debates before, and watching every 2016 one live, I felt the bottom drop out of reality when there were "moderators" who just allowed him to spew nonsense and bullshit unchecked, not to mention float about the stage like a predatory, narcissistic balloon when the camera wasn't on him.

Jeremy Paxman should moderate all 2020 debates, with Daniel Dale in his earpiece.

Scare quotes very appropriately employed.

whoever the democratic candidate is should refuse to debate him unless some new, real-time fact-checking procedure is installed. not because i think it will make a difference to trump supporters, just because there is no real reason to repeat the farce of the 2016 debates.

he isn't actually debating

I actually agree. There is nothing to be gained in pretending to debate him. Refusing to acknowledge him at all is probably the best strategy a dem candidate could take.

debates are largely pointless anyway and they're always riddled with inaccuracies and spin, but there was something really degrading about that st. louis experience, not just to hillary but to the nation

sometimes i think presidential debates were always a bad idea

think where our country might be today if reagan hadn't impressed a lot of television viewers by saying "there you go again!"

idk I imagine refusing to debate him outright backfiring pretty badly. better to just use the debates as an opportunity to present your case and just engage w/ him as little as possible imho

Well if he's not going to debate anyway, the dem could just do their best to "fact check" (AKA prepared responses to any of his greatest hits) in real time and jim face at the camera. Maybe put on a lab coat and refer to him as "the subject" throughout.

I love y’all but refusing to debate would be the worst decision of all time

evan's idea is realistic

I felt the bottom drop out of reality when there were "moderators" who just allowed him to spew nonsense and bullshit unchecked, not to mention float about the stage like a predatory, narcissistic balloon when the camera wasn't on him.

this was pretty bad but tbh I thought the way they handled the Republican debates was worse, giving Trump 3x the time of anyone else, pausing for applause after all his dumb zingers, and then airing them nonstop as a means to get people to watch the next one

luckily I didn't have to deal with that, but after a year in America I can aver that television news here overall is absolutely and completely shitfucked

I felt the bottom drop out of reality when there were "moderators" who just allowed him to spew nonsense and bullshit unchecked, not to mention float about the stage like a predatory, narcissistic balloon when the camera wasn't on him.

imo the only reason debates feel important is that they are literally the only time during an american presidential campaign that a significant chunk of people sit down to listen to "the issues" being discussed outside their own personal facebook bubbles. if our fourth estate functioned properly they would feel much less essential - just another podium on which to bloviate

hai americans, just checking in from the future here... not even going to tell you who is president now or how bad climate change has got cause u'll think i'm doing some extremely heavy handed satire, but y'all enjoy new year

Good morning!

idk I imagine refusing to debate him outright backfiring pretty badly.

I think a blunt description of why it is impossible to "debate" Trump would resonate with a lot of voters who aren't guaranteed Trump devotees. To wit...

"I won't debate him, because, face it, our president lies. A lot. And when he doesn't lie he exaggerates. And when he isn't lying or exaggerating, he raises red herrings and then he lies or exaggerates some more. Listen, the only way properly 'debate' Trump is to completely ignore whatever he says. But it's way simpler to do that by not debating him at all, because a 'debate' just gives him gives him a big, free stage for his lying antics, but doesn't gain me anything in return. I refuse to do it. With Trump it's just stupid to even attempt it. Now, got it? Good. Because that's my answer every time you ask me about 'debates'."

Wait, do people think he won the debates against Hillary?

People seemed to think it at the time.
Won debates, beat her, handed her her relevant body part.
But it seemed to be on a more emotive level than factual. People still sit through his rallies for enjoyment despite all the lies.

Pretty sure you can find people who think just about anything.

"I won't debate him, because, face it, our president lies. A lot. And when he doesn't lie he exaggerates. And when he isn't lying or exaggerating, he raises red herrings and then he lies or exaggerates some more. Listen, the only way properly 'debate' Trump is to completely ignore whatever he says. But it's way simpler to do that by not debating him at all, because a 'debate' just gives him gives him a big, free stage for his lying antics, but doesn't gain me anything in return. I refuse to do it. With Trump it's just stupid to even attempt it. Now, got it? Good. Because that's my answer every time you ask me about 'debates'."

you're dreaming if you think this doesn't read like one long chickenshit waffle. (I'm not saying it's incorrect.)

Wait, do people think he won the debates against Hillary?

― Nerdstrom Poindexter,

Depends what you measure it in? If you measure it in 'did enough in them to secure an election victory" then yes

If you have to 'debate' Trump, you use the opportunity to just lay out your platform without ever directly acknowledging him or anything he says. Don't refute, don't respond, don't react. He doesn't fucking exist. Steamroll over every dumb fucking phoneme that burbles from his face anus and make yourself the adult in the room.

Every poll showed Hilary winning the debates, iirc?

Yes of course Trump people thought Trump won the debates. That’s not a thing I doubted.

Remembering that Kerry kind of made Bush look stupid in 3 debates. Feeling like 16 was a similar thing and it didn’t really matter

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/ahead-times-square-ball-drop-u-s-strategic-command-jokes-n953416

If you have to 'debate' Trump, you use the opportunity to just lay out your platform without ever directly acknowledging him or anything

Absolutely! Make use of all airtime to lay out your platform and not get into nonsense

Every poll showed Hilary winning the debates, iirc?

― Frederik B,

All except the big one!

US Politics January 2019: we are #ready to drop something much, much bigger