SWANS vs. SONIC YOUTH

alex loves a lot of goth music. he just has a fear of the goth label. or he doesn't want people to think he's goth. or he hates goth people. something like that.

ý buy mýne clothes at hot topýc is teh goth?

sonic youth were definitely one of my favorite bands circa 1985 to 1988 or so. swans have been one of my favorite bands from 1985 till now. that's the difference for me. i NEVER stopped listening to swans. but i definitely stopped listening to my favorite sonic youth albums. and don't even OWN copies of my favorite sonic youth albums anymore. they were great. i will never deny that. and a great live band. swans/skin/etc just gave me so much more to tackle. and i never got tired of hearing whatever sounds gira came up with. i still say that he has NEVER made a bad album. or made music that i didn't find enjoyable in some way.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/lwtua.jpg

LOL at Thurston suddenly seeming very afraid at the possibility of offending Michael Gira.

gira doesn't seem like the type who would hold a grudge

alex loves a lot of goth music. he just has a fear of the goth label. or he doesn't want people to think he's goth. or he hates goth people. something like that.

"Goth" is a pejorative that entirely applies to idiots like Strawberry Switchblade and London After Midnight and the Sex Gang Children and stuff like that. Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* a lot of Goth bands (notably the `Nephilim and the Mission and the like), but certain bands exude a great deal more depth, promise and ability -- and just because they HAPPEN to succumb to one or two of the trappings of what has lazily come to represent "goth," that should not mean they are similarly tarred with that pejorative.

in other words, SWANS (and Joy Division and Killing Joke and _____ [insert band name here]) deserve MORE RESPECT than to be simply written off as "goths".

I love Sonic Youth, but Swans have hit me on a much deeper emotional level. I'm playing Soundtracks For The Blind right now, in fact and it's working wonders on my psyche.

I should add though that they are capable of hitting me on an equally emotional level even when they're noisy. They're beyond all rock and roll cliche's and trappings, whereas SY are really not.

That's interesting though Alex, I didn't understand before that you saw "goth" as a purely pejorative word. It kindof explains a lot.

now tell me about your father

I'm too much of a pussy to like the Swans much, I guess. Gimme my watered-down, sub-no-wave, post-hippie jam muzik, thanx.

xp x ?

Gof - the life-style choice of tru poseurs!

Having cloth ears != being a pussy.

sez, mr. vague?

everybody in new york circa 1980-82 w/a tangential connection to the music scene has a madonna story. the number of guys she "dated" must be astronomical!

some of their early gigs were like this thread title -- swans "VS" sonic youth, a noize battle unto the death.

i always liked sonic youth better but remain in awe at the gira's musical progression over time, inspiring.

Strawberry Switchblade

lolol

You missed the bit about The Mission having more depth than them.

That Rose McDowall is such a poseur eh?

I love the Mish, but "depth" isn't something I'd expect from a band singing about Faerie Rings and Wastelands.

Sonic Youth, because they were quite simply the better band.

That said, I agree with Edward III that Live Skull were better than either SY or Swans.

But then I would also argue that Savage Republic were better than Sonic Youth or Swans or Live Skull.

And then there's Nice Strong Arm.

At which point it gets tricky......

SWANS completely crush Nice Strong Arm. There is no contest. There is no debate. There is no funeral. There is no apology. Just the merciless, humiliating crushing of Nice Strong Arm.

Everything post "Reality Bath" yes. But "Reality Bath", no. That really is an extraordinary record.

do swans use special goth grip to accomplish this crushing? i have heard the the nice arm is quite strong and crush-resistant. thank you. i am interested in this information.

http://www.historyhouse.com/img/c/russo_japanese_laughing_jap.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Just wanted to add my voice to the multitude and add that I feel SWANS' covers were better too.

yea i'm feeling swans, too, and i love sonic youth (at least the 80s albums, as i've mentioned previously). when i started the thread i figured it'd be a good fight but that SY would come out on top. i'm not so sure now, maybe swans have got a shot...

Xpost: "But then I would also argue that Savage Republic were better than Sonic Youth or Swans or Live Skull."
I, for one, would agree.

SY, somewhat grudgingly, as I don't have much time for their post 80's output. But I have none at all for Gira, when all is said and done.

"Reality Bath" is ok, but it's so badly recorded (double drums never sounded more like double cardboard boxes) that there's no way it's extraordinary. A shame, actually. xpost.

This thread had me pulling out the Cop/Young God era Swans for the first time in a while...made great background music while walking around the upper east side on a wintry day.

Running the likes of Savage Republic (Live Skull, Dust Devils or whatever) against early SY & Swans, I guess you've got fair fight, but they burned out to early to match the breadth/depth the latter acheived over time. I love Savage Republic, too, but I think I only listen to them so much nowadays 'cuz I've played SY to death.

I was thinking something like that: I could put together a six-song Dustdevils or Rat at Rat R compilation that I like more than any six-song SY/Swans thing, but you're talking 2-4 albums vs. a huge career.

Speaking of SWANS on the Upper East Side, did I ever mention the time I ran into Michael Gira in (preppie apparel enclave) Brooks Brothers?

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

close!

i like the story alex. from what i've heard he's quite pleasant in person.

SWANS completely crush Nice Strong Arm. There is no contest. There is no debate. There is no funeral. There is no apology. Just the merciless, humiliating crushing of Nice Strong Arm.

Alex, I have been reading your posts for most of the 21st century so far, and this one is one of my favorites. Add another beer to the tally of beers I owe you.

I don't think I've ever heard Nice Strong Arm, but I'm 100% convinced by this argument.

lurkers win again

I like both bands,but SY only few early LPs and some songs in the rest of the albums,SWNAS are extreme experience and evolution to the cosmos at the end of his career I think,wante d live video shows!

LOL

If we make this a live poll, it's Swans by a ridiculous margin. And because of that, I pick Swans anyway. Bonus points for having a better sense of when to stop. Double bonus points for better deployment of arguably embarrasing female member. Triple bonus points because Skin/World of Skin is better than any Sonic Youth side project. And so on...

Over 30, but of course.

― dlp9001, Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:34 PM (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://phatfriend.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/dr_drew_281x211.jpg

Apparently Gira and Moore didn't speak for years, but they're cool with each other now and Thurston is appearing at a Swans show in London soon. So there's that.