TS: Mekons vs. Gang of Four

Mekons = 2 great singles

wtf?

Go4, then.

The Mekons, by math.

I'm unsurprised by the results here but did wonder what people would say (alternate thread titles: "OPO: Shouty (Ex-)Marxist/Socialist Art Students out of Leeds University in the 70s"; "TS: Humor vs. Really Fucking Harsh Irony"). This was a very tough call for me, but my dislike, in some cases intense, for most of what Gang of Four have done since 1982 (including, yes, extra-musical considerations) helped tip it to the Mekons.

The breakdown:
song - tie
album - Gang of Four
stylistic innovations & success & lasting influence thereof - Gang of Four
live spectacle - both great, but reduced for convenience's sake to "beating up microwave ovens with aluminum bats /vs./ miming being ass-fucked with tail of bandmate costumed as the Devil" - Mekons
entire musical output considered as a whole - Mekons
all considerations apart from merit of the bands' musical output (cf. Clear Channel, Hard Rock Cafe, remixes, unironic fog machines, Karate Kid soundtrack, Morningwood as opening band, etc etc etc etc) - Mekons>(infinity)>Gang of Four

Mekons

OTM, though I'd replace Fear and Whiskey with So Good It Hurts.

The Mekons have had their ups and downs, and it's probably fair to say that - despite early classics such as Never Been In A Riot," "Where Were You?", "Teeth," "Rosanne," "Guardian," "Snow," "Karen" and a few others - the Gang of Four were more consistent early on. But for both bands, I've only compared two albums and related singles -since then the Mekons have been generally great - sometimes incredible (I'd cite "Fun 90," "Rock And Roll," "Fear & Whiskey" and "So Good It Hurts" as some of the best releases in the past 20 years) and always at least worth a spin. More than I can say for "Mall" or "Shrinkrapped" or "Dispossession" or introducing the world to the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And that's not even including the many odd perfect moments that the Mekons still manage - their weird but perfect remake of "Sporting Life" last year, for one.

Plus they have a sense of humor!

Mekons by a mile.

Yeah, except that Shrinkwrapped wasn't hideous -- "I Parade Myself" was even kind of great, with an echo of "Damaged Goods" in that "bye, bye, bye..." at the end; and I liked the symmetry of beginning and ending their songwriting career with the same verbal move.

Their more recent comeback album is actually excellent

None of those versions are better the originals, a few are a lot worse, and it all sounds literally as though it was recorded in a vacuum. Anyway Mekons did all that in 2004. Punk Rock's new arrangements and production were different enough to be interesting and sometimes much better. See also Wire's reworkings on It's Beginning To and Back Again (1989).

"Dispossession"

Never heard this and would like to, just for completeness.

Plus [Mekons] have a sense of humor!

Good point, though it seemed to me that Gang of Four had something like a sense of humor, albeit one that exceeded mere sarcasm to such a degree that it was practically the same as not having a sense of humor.

In other words: "Fear and Whiskey," "Honky Tonkin," "The Edge of the World," "So Good It Hurts," "Rock 'n' Roll," "Curse of the Mekons" and "OOOH!" all = classic, with the possible bonus inclusion of "I [Heart] Mekons" and "Journey to the End of the Night." And the "Fun 90" EP. Hell, even the live ROIR release is great. Collect 'em all!

Maybe a more fair fight would be Mekons vs. Wire, since at least Wire has remained interesting and viable.

That is an absolutely fantastic song. "And darkness is what surrounds me, so I can open my heart to the world." The guitar part in the last twenty-five seconds is one of the things I love most in all of music.

Part of my vote may also be attributed to the fact that I heard the Mekons first.

Much of the reason that this was at all difficult for me was that I heard and saw Gang of Four when they were still very very great, and didn't really get the Mekons until several years later with Rock'n'Roll.

I love the first three Go4 albums (yes, all three of them)

Same here -- up through AND INCLUDING Songs of the Free: unfuckwithable.

A brilliant set of web pages exists called "Deck of Cards: Myth, History, Mekons." It is no longer online but can still be accessed via the Wayback Machine, here.

The Deck of Cards in our title refers to a worn and weary routine, a sappy classic, which regularly hit the country music charts. In a sanctimonious and sentimental tone, a condemned man or a dying soldier reveals how each card, every number and suit, king, queen and jack, teaches a lesson about the road to salvation or good conduct in this life.

This method of allegorical reading, even in such a kitschy form, draws upon the power of scenes, images and objects to generate meaning and galvanize thought. Walter Benjamin supplies the methodological touchstone for this procedure [...] Such a mode of representation, of rubbing history against the grain, proves useful as a technique of cultural survival. It's no accident that the Mekons are still alive and kicking after 20 years in the bizness.

The Mekons Deck of Cards: a graphic interface which projects the imaginary potential of myth onto the productive sphere of historical agency. [...]

Let's play. Cut the deck, dealer calls, Mekons shuffle...

Mekons 11, Gang of Four 6.

so im just gonna say delta 5.

Not that it isn't a great song, but the lyrics are entirely ripped from "The Locked Room" by Paul Auster. It's a very odd feeling to be reading a book and suddenly realize that you've heard the passage you're reading before. Whatever, the fiddle/guitar interplay in that song is fucking fantastic.

And Mekons, definitely. I would argue that "Like Spoons No More," the first song on Quality of Mercy, stands up to just about any Go4 song. Going on from there, Original Sin, Honky Tonkin', Edge of the World, Rock'n'Roll, and OOOH! are all fantastic. I saw Jon Langford and Sally Timms last week, doing their performance of The Executioner's Last Songs, and they're still marvelously entertaining. Must pick up Langford's new CD next month.

Wow, I had no idea. Thanks. ...Yeah, the Executioner's Last Songs show was great, very much an autobiographical revue; and on a Mekon-related fashion note, I must find (or possibly even try to make if need be) a dress exactly like the one Ms. Timms had on, though I cannot sing "Long Black Veil" or anything else.

One wonders what may be next for Mekons, with the backward-looking Punk Rock their latest release and all of Langford's other activity.

mekons + gang of four = delta 5
so im just gonna say delta 5.

Though I can't honestly say that Delta 5 were better or even more important to me than those other bands, I am very glad to have the reissue.

This was posted elsewhere on ILM a few weeks ago, but what the hell: Gang of Four covering "Rosanne," Chicago 1979; the distaste with which Jon King snaps the line about "soppy romancin'" cracks me up every time.
http://s57.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=17FHT412LF2H93UH7LSMB6CYBT

Mekons. Always the Mekons.

Oh man, she had the greatest outfit ever. I want her crumpled black hat.

Plus I saw them on their farewell tour at CBGBs and they were fucking great live.

Didn't get the memo. :((((

sinking a couple pints of of every beer on draught in the bar VS sipping a few shots of top shelf whisky...so gang of four 4 me.

now GANG OF FOUR vs THREE JOHNS might be a tougher pick (and makes more sonic sense as a comparison to my aged ears).

GOOD!

quantity (mekons) VS quality (gang of four)

Point taken; but if you make it about good album:crap album ratios, it's Mekons again for me.

GANG OF FOUR vs THREE JOHNS

Much as I loved "Death of the European," that'd have to be Gang of Four. (Just listened to "I Parade Myself" again ... is that some quality 90s dance-rock sleaze or what.)

Didn't Steve Goulding play drums for both bands?

Wasn't the Three Johns drummer a um (clears throat) drum machine?

The Mekons may be the most important least self-important band ever.

well I'd say supplying a reading list w/yr lyric sheet, asking "Rock & Roll" to answer for its sins etc qualifies as self-important!

A short biography by Steve Goulding himself:
I was born and raised in South London, England. I left school at 18, and worked in a publishing house and also house-cleaning for a couple of years. I played with bassist Andrew Bodnar in a pub rock band called Bontemps Roulez until we joined the Rumour, later Graham Parker's band, in 1975. After the band split in 1981, I played with Garland Jeffreys on his Escape Artist tour, having previously recorded the ESCAPE ARTIST album with him. Around this time I also played with David Bowie on the Johnny Carson Show at the invitation of GE Smith, who was the guitarist on Garland's album and was playing with Bowie at the time. A stint with the British band the Associates followed, as did a succession of European TV appearances with Roxy Music. A world tour with Lene Lovich led to an audition for Gang Of Four, who I played with for around 18 months until they split.

x-post Yeah, but I always thought the reading recommendations and other liner note goodness on Mekons albums were kind of "for further research" bonuses, as much a pomo wink as Langford's cover art. Sure, some Mekons albums include bibliographies, but I figured that was not so much self-importance at work as it was the band's modest, honest eagerness to simply credit sources of inspiration.

Wow, I've never seen this: Gang of Four, New Year's Eve 1980, with Mekons Jon and Tom and backing vox:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7B6FmC0AA#at=59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7B6FmC0AA#at=59

https://www.discogs.com/Mekons-FUN-90/release/5196177

Mekons vs Baggy Dance Beats : i had forgotten just how fantastic this was

Plus it's got their great Band cover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42WnZxLYWrM

indeed.
love it.