Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"

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Is the video not good? It sounds good. (This piece is silly btw.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:49 (nineteen years ago) link

anyway, ethan said it best: seriously if you cant think of 100 jay-z songs better than 99 problems you can fuck off

nah, the video is okay, but for goddsakes it just looks like every other "arty" mid-90s video!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:50 (nineteen years ago) link

i like the video, the piece is stupid and kinda makes me hate it though!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:50 (nineteen years ago) link

That doesn't sound that good.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:51 (nineteen years ago) link

lemme describe it for you:

very high contrast black and white
harsh, fast edits
mixture of sexual, religious, and "street" imagery

sound familiar?!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:53 (nineteen years ago) link

I wonder if anyone is really paying attention to A Raisin in the Sun. You'd swear from this article that it's provoking a Lorraine Hansberry renaissance, but that seems like hype to me.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:54 (nineteen years ago) link

This video questions what all the others say is fly, def or cool by showing that hipster perspective to be limited; simply sexy rather than shocking; and laughable instead of tragic. "We're trying to show the artistry side of hiphop," Jay-Z told a reporter. "I just really wanted [Mark] to shoot like where I'm from in Brooklyn and shoot the hood, but shoot it like art, not just shoot a bunch of dudes or a bunch of cars."

this article is so self-contradictory!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:54 (nineteen years ago) link

"LIKE A PRAYER"?!?!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:54 (nineteen years ago) link

but maybe i'm just resentful at mark romanek for questioning what i say is fly, def or cool

(xp)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh wait that wasn't in b&w, nevermind haha.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link

haha yeah but i think mark romanek directed it and it was the first thing i thought of when i typed it.

really it reminds me of a NIN video, just trading cod-"industrial" signifiers for rap ones.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:56 (nineteen years ago) link

You just know that collab is coming too, dontchya.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:58 (nineteen years ago) link

haha there's kind of a fine line separating "perfect drug" from "is that your bitch" i guess

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Jesus H. Christ on a goddamn fucking crutch. I want to hit the author of the piece with one of those scaly fish that causes bleeding scrapes on skin.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:01 (nineteen years ago) link

ROCK IS BACK!

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:02 (nineteen years ago) link

ARGH.

I mean seriously, Gear, you say his music criticism is okay and his FILM criticism is what sucks?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:03 (nineteen years ago) link

he's not talking about production values! or music!

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

so is this the long delayed answer video to monster magnet's 'alt-rock videos = boring ass; hip-hop videos = super fun time' salvo?

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahah.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Fish beatings?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:10 (nineteen years ago) link

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I get too distracted by the girl in the Kanye video to even notice that he's rapping. It's a good video like that.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

the kanye video is an oblique meditation of the toll child acting takes on the actors themselves

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:22 (nineteen years ago) link

(and also stacey dash's very fine breasts and behind)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Who is the child actor in the Kanye video?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:24 (nineteen years ago) link

the small asian boy who squirts mustard on him

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Fish beatings?

The sledgehammer is used for Rush L. tonight.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

also, kanye was played by emmanuel lewis.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Stacey Dash has a great name. I can't believe she was NEARLY 30 when she did Clueless!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahaha I totally don't remember her from any of these TV shows.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:27 (nineteen years ago) link

when she gets married she will be mrs. dash

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Sprinkle some of that shit over here, honey.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Salt free, even.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

I mean As Romanek's images keep coming at you—pulsing to producer Rick Rubin's sullen, reverberating beat—they fall into line as maybe the truest-ever hiphop portrait of New York life.

Thank you Rick and Mark for saving hip hop from itself!

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:32 (nineteen years ago) link

he is worse as a film critic, believe it or not. Apparently if you didn't like 3000 Miles to Graceland, Misson to Mars, A:I, etc and you DID like anything shot on DV, Guy Maddin, etc. you're a moron.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I like the first, hated the next two (well M2M is fine enough for comedy, I guess). I don't like Guy Maddin though and I am ambivalent about DV.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't mind his opinions but his tendency to villify those who disagree or just happen to feel differently. I'm sure among NYC writers he's pretty notorious for being a dick.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:41 (nineteen years ago) link

That would be the pot calling the kettle black.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:42 (nineteen years ago) link

true true

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:45 (nineteen years ago) link

usually Armond White is frothing at the mouth with racist conspiracies than ILM, shame he handled this one with kid gloves.

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

with *more* racist etc, that should've said

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

Just checking. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:11 (nineteen years ago) link

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

he does rap it, but it's "allow me to" and it's in the second interlude/psa. i haven't seen the 99 problems video yet; but i know at least parts of this interlude were mixed into the dirt off my shoulder video so i guess anything's possible.

andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I read this thread as "Can, Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop." Heh.

Laszlo Kovacs (Laszlo Kovacs), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:20 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.furious.com/perfect/graphics/can1.jpg
gerades outta Deutschland

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Lights in the city went dark, then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.



I wonder if Hova lectured the director about the importance of misunderstood life-force during the filming of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder."

Erick (Imbroglio), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:58 (nineteen years ago) link

he actually can be an ok movie critic sometimes, i have to admit

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 06:42 (nineteen years ago) link

haha when?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:44 (nineteen years ago) link

He may be over the top and largely wrong, but you have to admit that's a well written piece.

djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:56 (nineteen years ago) link

he's made such an exercise of wringing every bit of MEANING out of "99 problems" (and "dirt off your shoulder", sheesh), you'd think he'd have more trouble dismissing every other bit of hiphop that doesn't see the music video as a minor branch of independant cinema.

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:25 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought ass-fixation and angst were the same thing?

gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I keep thinking the guy's called 'Almond'. It makes his full name sound like an ice cream flavour.

Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Astoundingly bad. I particularly like this line:

"It was not a great day for the race when the entertainment industrial complex took on the artisanal productions of urban youth, eventually taking over their dreams."

Right, because it's fine to let urban youth dream of being celebrated for their talents, so long as they have no chance of actually making any money out of it.

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with Matos.
-- Phil Freeman (newyorkisno...), May 12th, 2004.

first time for everything, right Phil?! ;-)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link

but Romanek himself summed up the cliches back in '91 when musing on a concept for De La Soul's Ring, Ring, Ring (Hey, Hey, Hey). Chicago-born Romanek lamented, "All rap music videos look the same. They're all shot against a brick wall."

I used to watch rap videos all the time in 1991 and I don't remember them all looking the same at all. I remember pink cadillacs flying in front of the moon, another car ploughing into a burning cross, Queen Latifah knocking giant chess pieces off a board, and scenes shot in Egypt.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

when I say terrible film critic, I mean TERRIBLE


Sideburns, ducktails, money, blood and sex–that’s the satirical surface of 3000 Miles to Graceland. Underneath is a pretty fair assessment of American ambition gone wrong. Kevin Costner plays Murphy, a sociopath obsessed with Elvis Presley who rounds up a gang to rob a Las Vegas casino during an Elvis imitators’ convention. If the symbolism’s bloated, so is the idolatry that Costner and director Demian Lichtenstein deride. Presley’s legend haunts the movie as a fat, gaudy, bankrupt ideal that still serves to motivate the disheartened.

Murphy and his partner Michael (Kurt Russell), desert mom Cybil (Courteney Cox) and her ragamuffin son Jesse (David Kaye) aren’t doomed, they’re pathetic, double-crossing each other in ways that suggest the hollowness of life predicated on money; losers who console themselves with the world’s plunder. 3000 Miles’ early climax–the robbery sequence–is the most calamitously violent action scene ever to put a thought in the audience’s mind. Unlike Kubrick’s inexorable fatalism in The Killing, this sequence is just blunt. "As wild and as daring as anything on the American landscape," says a startled tv reporter. (Or else, simply the best contemporary shootout Walter Hill didn’t direct.) Though it’s similar to the kind of pointless bang-bang moviegoers accept as a Saturday Night Special, I vouch for the split-second editing that catches a bullet going through an Elvis cape. And I salute the cut to the exterior that shows a chopper coming to rendezvous with Murphy’s band. Suspended in midair–and time–this image, hovering over the casino, is breathtaking.

The entire movie has the feel of being in moral suspension. Despite the caper plot and bloody intensity, this isn’t a typically cynical neo-noir. That War in Vegas sequence establishes a spangly, neon miasma so that we watch the peacetime story appropriately aghast at the evidence of contemporary dissolution. 3000 Miles tracks pessimistic ex-cons, broken families on the road, boys without role models, casual venality, the familiarity of violence. It’s flashy but it’s also uncanny. The story of Michael’s corruption opposes Murphy’s hopeless corruption (announced in the 3-D credit sequence). It seeks decent, humane gestures (among them, Ice-T keeping thieves’ honor through a spectacular sacrifice) and, with a sense of topsy-turvy grace, moves toward light. Michael, Cybil and Jesse sail off into uncertain political waters just like the characters in Peckinpah’s The Killer Elite. If critics mistake 3000 Miles for a Renny Harlin jamboree (or instead, find it inferior to such trash), it will prove how far we’ve fallen, no longer looking for meaning or emotion in action movies.

No actors are more empathetic than Russell and Costner. Both leathery and wizened, they’re surrounded by character types (David Arquette, Bokeem Woodbine, Howie Long and Christian Slater) distinctive enough to sharpen Jesse’s–our entire culture’s–sense of role-model fatigue. That Murphy, with his scorpion belt buckle, was a Nam medic before going bad signals deep distress that might be vague to today’s audience. Still, Lichtenstein, searching for the right, meaningful detail, uses the action genre as a dramatic form expressing the modern generational dilemma–without being lugubrious like Sean Penn’s The Pledge. Lichtenstein and cowriter Richard Recco come up with a saying for our times when Murphy, in a fight, is told, "That’s your criminal right!" The line transcends sarcasm; it bravely discloses a genuine social imbalance–as in such nonpresumptuous action flicks as George Armitage’s Vigilante Force. I fear that 3000 Miles might speed past many people’s heads just as the 70s road-movie alienation of Duets did last fall. These entertaining little movies hint at Americans’ barely articulated desires for a change of priorities and enlightened models of behavior. That overworked, blustery Elvis image (which serves as a conscripted uniform for Murphy’s gang) should provide a wake-up call even to those who share Greil Marcus’ wet dream.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

greil marcus' wet dream?

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't want to know.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:47 (nineteen years ago) link

you mean you don't share it?

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:58 (nineteen years ago) link

That review makes my heart hurt.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

He's right, you know. That movie's great.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I said I liked the movie upthread, but reading that review you'd have no idea it was actually good.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Did you like it for the same reasons or is he just insane?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

No, I like it mostly despite the things he talks about liking. Yes, he is insane.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link

So I figured.

Seriously, looking at the original article again, what the flying fuck. You couldn't have done a better parody article on the subject if you tried.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link

oops, looks like I didn't like Duets either, sorry.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Strangely I agree with him some of the time, but he clearly not only thinks he's right about everything, and that not only is everyone else wrong, everyone else is morally suspect and possibly evil.

He has a hard-on for DePalma, Altman, Walter Hill, Alan Rudolph, Tupac, the Smiths, and few others.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Having a hard-on for Alan Rudolph makes you morally suspect in my book.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Sure hope he googles himself and comes here and complains. I'll be deeply entertained!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Fuck him for liking shit like Afterglow and Welcome to LA.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

The funny part about the New York Press is that he and the other critic (Matt Zoller Seitz) don't seem to like each other, judging from the occasional sniping. Seitz is actually one of my favorite film critics. A more lucid thinker, a better writer, and his opinions always seem to be his own, he's never reacting against what others have said about the film in question.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

For the record, I think Walter Hill and Brian Depalma are underrated, too. Altman is overrated though (except for Nashville and McCabe and Mrs. Miller which can't be overrated enough.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:44 (nineteen years ago) link

The "99 Problems" video is cool, but no one should be paying any attention to Armond White. As a (film) critic, he's so far up his own bungy that he can say "hi!" to Thanksgiving Dinner.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Gear OTM about MZS

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Though the image of some "wiggers" shouting out Puffy as he enters Stage Left is pretty fun.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:06 (nineteen years ago) link

my favorite Armond White review is for American Beauty, he went real apeshit on that one and for the most part I agree.

Al (sitcom), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link

He was made that it was too mean, right? (I'm just guessing.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

made=mad

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:21 (nineteen years ago) link

There was another overblown piece about this video in the Sunday NYT too.

C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:37 (nineteen years ago) link

first off, "stigmatization is perpetuated..." fuck that shit. jay-z just has talent like louie armstrong, or whoever that trumpet player was who blew in front of all white bands and audiences. duke ellington! it's a total white-guy "keeping it real" retard notion. i can't believe this

I actually like his movie reviews. I mean he doesn't shy away from letting you know how he really feels. Also, they tend to be pretty memorable. I think I see his "overblown tendencies" as strong emotional resposes. Not what you usually get with movie reviews, i guess unless you count "hated it" or "loved it."

strong emotional responses are overblown tendencies when you can't write well. so many words i'd rather read "hated it" or "loved it" with a picture of him smiling smarmy, lips hiding teeth, eyes hollow. hated it!

$corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 04:55 (nineteen years ago) link

key phrases redux:

1) "partake in its spectacle"

$corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 05:02 (nineteen years ago) link

1) "...partake in its spectacle"
2) "the familiar edifice of ghetto-fabulous determinism"
3) "pauses for condescension"

$corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 05:06 (nineteen years ago) link

first off, "stigmatization is perpetuated..." fuck that shit. jay-z just has talent like louie armstrong, or whoever that trumpet player was who blew in front of all white bands and audiences. duke ellington! it's a total white-guy "keeping it real" retard notion. i can't believe this

(1) lots of black musicians played in all-white clubs during the '20s and '30s; not sure what yr overriding point there is.

(2) Armond White is, in fact, black.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:15 (nineteen years ago) link

(a photo and interview: http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/winter2004/features/the_critic.html)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:17 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, i was gonna say, the guy is black.

i actually don't like reading his essays per se but he sometimes has short little pieces in film comment that are ok, sometimes he has interesting reasons for talking about something. his taste is really perverse and unpredictable, which is good and bad.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:54 (nineteen years ago) link

five years pass...

while he did throw shapes abt these indie bands to drum up publicity for blueprint 3, the common source of this for both jay-z & d projectors is probably new-agey self-help stuff. it's a p ancient idea.

tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:52 (fourteen years ago) link

jayzheadnod.gif

nakhchivan, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (fourteen years ago) link

haha!

tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (fourteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

Armond on The Smiths' Girlfriend in a Coma

flappy bird, Friday, 11 August 2017 04:22 (six years ago) link

God I hate to be "well actually" but girlfriend in a coma isn't even in the top 10 of controversial morrissey/smiths songs

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 11 August 2017 06:51 (six years ago) link

i've never been a fan of armond but that was a pretty decent piece imo

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 11 August 2017 07:23 (six years ago) link

did we ever get this sorted lads

for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 11 August 2017 08:33 (six years ago) link

somewhere in my hellsite of a flat i have a copy of a new york city sun (from 1992 i guess?) which contains two long articles by armond white (while it lasted he was its critic-in-chief)

1: is a long detailed look at malcolm x the historical figure and malcolm x the movie
2: the other is a long favourable look at morrissey, who AW was very evidently drawn to

given both their subsequent trajectories i think this is both telling and -- to be fair to AW -- perceptive

(the movie came out the exact month of the madstock/union jack controversy, which is where inklings of doubt did begin elsewhere; can't recall if the city sun piece discusses this or predates it; should probably look it out and report back, perhaps a month off-line wd do me good)

mark s, Friday, 11 August 2017 10:45 (six years ago) link


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