Bogshed - kings of swing: discuss

let them eat bogshed and brutal are my faves...

don't think the Nightingales "belong" here (werem't they much earlier? Dr.C to thread)

time to campaign fr a release ae aw peel sessions
seconded!

Oh the Mekons absolutely don't belong on the list - different thing altogether - they were class of '78 Leeds punkers and by the mid-80s were already doing the c&w thing, I think. Three Johns were possibly better than the likes of the Membranes etc, but not much.

Northern - mainly. Slaughter Joe Foster was from London (or was he orig. a chum of McGhee's in Glasgae - who cares really?), Folk Devils and Shrubs possibly from the South. Janitors were from Derby, Big Flame from Manc, Membranes from Blackpool, Meat Whiplash from Glasgow....

Yes Age of Chance were similar pre-kiss.

oh no, i totally understand that (i was talking about them more as an influence on these later bands -- as were the pop group and wire and the gang of four along with the fall, near as i can tell); they were also already doing *some* country/folk-ish stuff as early as *the mekons* aka *devils rats and piggies* circa 1980 or so, and were doing it full-time pretty much by the *english dancing master* EP circa 1983 or so and actually even getting critic-notice in the USA for in by *fear and whiskey* circa 1985 or so (after which, to my ears, their music got less and less interesting from there.) and yeah, that's true, i guess the nightingales' gang of 4-ish stuff was earlier as well; they were doing their own country/folk-ish stuff by '87 too: in fact, didn't they even put out an LP called *in the good old country way* or something like that around then?

It says :**(the 'in the good old country way' album is to be issued on cd on monday 3 october as the first release by a newly formed label - caroline true records.
the cd will contain both sides of the 'its a cracker' single, 'what a carry on', 'carry on carrying on' & 'first my job' from the 'waco' ep, 'lets surf'
from the vindaloo summer special record, 'at the end of the day' ('bakers dozen' version not 'what a scream' version) plus a previously unreleased (peel version) recording of 'rockin with rita' as the extra track malarkey.
catalogue number - true1. distribution by shellshock, all territories except north america & canada.

cherry red records will be releasing the 'hysterics' album at some stage in november, though the exact release date, catalogue number, etc, is yet to be confirmed.
the bonus track caper on this one features the 'crafty fag' b-side version of 'how to age', the four tracks from 'the crunch' ep & 'only my opinion'. **

Incidentally the current N'Gales line-up has Pete Byrchmore in it - his slide/metal guitar is all over ITGOCW, albeit mixed down a bit. Also in the band now are Alan Apperley (gtr) and Eamon Duffy (bass) who were in The Prefects, but not in the N'Gales. (alright Duffy was on the first single only).

may now have to reinvestigate/refresh.

especially with the early AOC connection indicated.

I pulled out my Big Flame CD today and started wondering about these bands again. Almost none of them are on youtube, which is sad.

British people please illuminate me some more. Thank you.

http://phoenixhairpins.blogspot.com/

I would like to hear it actually because I only remember "Run to The Temple" from the C86 tape.

Yeah, I had a single or two (12-inch I guess?) at one time, which I liked fine, but I don't remember them being all that much better than most of these other bands -- and definitely not better than the Three Johns on Atom Drum Bop or "Death Of The European." I could be wrong, though; I should try to hear them again sometime. (But didn't they come out a couple years behind more of this stuff?

We’ll ignore the Sewer Zombies album, I think Ron was trying to jump on the hardcore/Napalm Death/Extreme Noise Terror bandwagon, and missed, bruising his knee on the kerb. Ouch.

From that Ron Johnson link....Ha, Sewer Zombies were Floridians, I think, who sounded like Chrome. Way better than any of this Brit stuff, if my memory's right. I still have the U.S. (self-released, I think -- definitely not Ron Johnson) version of their debut LP.

If my fuzzy memory is correct the NME grouped any band remotely sounding like the Fall or Beefheart under the "shambling" label to distinguish them from the rest of the C86 crowd who ripped off the Byrds.

Really??? I always thought the so-called "shambling" bands were the janglier ones who were trying to sound like the Byrds. But my comprehension of the British language isn't always so good; maybe I misunderstood. (I also remember A Witness being shamblier or at least janglier than most of these bands, but I could be wrong. At least at the time, they actually struck my ears as too "normal"!)

Big Flame – who sound close to American Hardcore

Um...maybe if by "American hardcore" you mean the Minutemen? (I never really understood how the NME etc used the word "hardcore" at the time either. They'd run year-end hardcore top tens with, like, the Swans and Einsturzende Neubauten on them! And I just noticed somebody apparently British on some other thread lumping Mission of Burma and Ut under the term; weird. But the Minutemen at least did come out of L.A.'s hardcore scene, plus their songs were a minute long at first, so I suppose they can count.)

Behind most of this stuff I meant. (Though maybe it's just that the World Domination Enterprises 12-inch[es] I heard arrived on American shores later; for all I know, they came out around the same time as these other bands in England.) Anyway, I still definitely associate World Domination Enterprises with Age Of Chance, for some reason. Didn't both attempt a hip-hop influence? (Though my favorite AOC stuff -- i.e, "Bible of The Beats," the 45 of which I wish I still owned -- was before they seemed to audibly discover Public Enemy or whoever. )

I’ve only heard “Asbestos, Lead, Asbestos” by WDE. I’d like to hear more. Just checked out my Rough Trade Post-Punk CD and it says that WDE used to release stuff on Fuck Off records as The O12. They put out the "Fish from Tahiti" single which I kinda like.

I'm trying to sort out my memory of how the word "shambling" was used. I think it went something like: Peel suggests the name and it's taken to mean any of the more-or-less amateurish indie stuff he's playing, from the crunchy Ron Johnson end of things to the janglers and the sub-Buzzcocks lot. Then various people seemed to use it to mean one or the other of the above groupings but never both, and it was often really hard to understand what people meant when they used the word. Then, weirdly, the jangly and buzzsaw end of things seemed to take on the name C86 and the rest were left with shambling, in so far as anyone talked about them at all, ever.

On topic slightly: I still think Bogshed's two finest moments were the first EP ("Let Them Eat Bogshed" and the interview with Neil wotsit (Spencer?) in the NME.

Fanzines were 100% where it was at for coverage of this scene. The scene seemed to be pretty small. Maybe only 100 people or less at the gigs I attended with much of the audience being folks in other bands and who were also fanzine writers etc. eg. The fanzine Pure Popcorn was done by a couple of guys who were in the Soup Dragons and the Close Lobsters and Glottal Stop was Rhodri Marsden from the Keatons. Many poorly attended, very late (like 2am) Sunday night gigs at Rooftops in Glasgow where I was living at the time. I recall one WDE gig there with only about 60 people - this was right when they were shit-hot, had appeared on telly, decent radio play etc, but could only get a handful of mad-keen fans out to their shows. All the rest of the fucking idiots were saving their dough to go and tour Europe with The Mission, I guess.

John Peel championed most of them, though. Bogshed, Noseflutes, A Witness, the Mackenzies, bIG fLAME etc all did numerous sessions that were as good as if not better than their official releases. The final Bogshed one (findable on slsk) is really quite excellent - containing the songs US Bands & Duckfight amongst others).

Almost all of them did at least a few absolutely brilliant songs, most of which I can't remember since I can't lay my hands of a lot of these records right now. I know the Noseflutes had one really awesome number which sounded a bit like "Tom Hark" being performed by the Residents. The Mackenzies second single "Mealy Mouths" was an nice step from being the Scottish Big Flame into some kind of dancable Sudden Sway territory.

World Dom had a couple of indie hits which got played at certain kinds of clubs. Picking only one I'd say "I Got A Message For You People" was their most rousing crowdpleaser.

I think I had three Shrubs albums at one point and I have to say there probably isn't anything on there I'd care to reccomend.

A Witness were brilliant live but I haven't heard their records in years.

I remember the Janitors being played in the common room when I was at school. Loud, garage punk with shouting is how I remember them. They were on Marc "Lard" Riley's In Tape label who released loads of of good records, some quite similar this kind of stuff but slightly more digestible - Rote Kapelle is one that springs to mind. Pretty much all the Rote Kappelle releases are good but they aren't as original as the Ron Johnson bands. The In Tape label doesn't seem to have acquired much fandom on the net, possibly because their releases were quite eclectic and they didn't have a signature sound. (Frank Sidebottom, skiffle-duo Terry and Jerry, Gaye Bikers On Acid, June Brides, Robert Lloyd, Yeah Yeah Noh etc).

Slaughter Joe don't fit in with this lot, really. They were a feedback band on Creation that were initially identical to Psycocandy-era JAMC, Meat Whiplash etc and later developed to sounding a bit like the Telescopes but I don't remember anything good, except the debut single "I'll Follow You Down".

Big Flame were actually quite an influential band to the few who heard them. I know up in Scotland there were lots of bands who sprang up in their wake - they did a well remembered gig at Bobby Gillespie's Splash-One club some time in '85 and soon we had the Mackenzies, Stretcheads, Dawson, Whirling Pig Dervish, Badgewearer etc all rocking the abrasive guitar/everchanging rhythm sound. There's some discussion on these bands on another thread on ILM possibly called something like "Growing Up In Scotland" but I can't seem to find it.

The Great Leap Forward were ex-Big Flamers who managed at least a couple of good Peel Sessions and their two eps are solidly excellent - much poppier, very energetic, nervy and political. It's possible they haven't dated very well. I span them a year or two ago and thought they were still quite good but not as mind-blowing as the first time I heard them. I've never heard the album.

Also: search for Nyah Fearties. Not really part of this scene (or any scene for that matter), but in the mix somewhere.

And yeah, "Bible Of The Beat" is possibly THE most essential thing of all.

From memory: The Folk Devils, (who again I think I recall being played alongside Marillion and the Sisters of Mercy on the High School dansette) were ramshackle and punky kinda in the Three Johns style. They also got support from John Peel. Never heard of Greenhouse of Terror. Who they? Don't know anything about Pigbros and Tools You Can Trust either, though I've heard them mentioned.

The Folk Devils were actually the kind of band I liked, but I blew my cash on Bone Orchard, the Inca Babes and the Linkmen instead and never got round to 'em.

Shit, I thought I'd posted the Big Flame Youtube link last night, but I guess I didn't. Stand by: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSDgGqFc17g

Pigbros are on there too.

http://francksauzee.multiply.com/music

time obviously plays tricks on the memory as i recall that being really busy.

tools you can trust were particularly awesome as this song demonstrates.

xpost. Holy shit. That's a pretty rich selection. I'm looking forward to hearing the two Robert Lloyd sessions on there. His solo stuff after the Nightingales is really good.

Cheers for the link.

Back to Simon, the mid-eighties and the weekly music rags. Wasn't that the time of the infamous NME hip-hop wars with certain writers pushing hip-hop and go-go music as the next big thing while other writers pledged allegiance to mop topped boys with guitars? As a yank it never made any sense to me why there was this musical schism. It certainly wasn’t that way in the early eighties. Just contrast the difference between C81 and C86. C81 had the usual indie suspects, but also had slinky funk from Linx, jazz from James Blood Ulmer, and Furious Pig. C86 had the Byrds/Velvets axis, the Ron Johnson crew and nothing else. C86 is a musical runt when compared to its predecessor.

Side one

1. "The "Sweetest Girl"" – Scritti Politti (6:09)
2. "Twist and Crawl Dub" – The Beat (4:58)
3. "Misery Goats" – Pere Ubu (2:26)
4. "7,000 Names of Wah!" – Wah! Heat (3:57)
5. "Blue Boy" – Orange Juice (2:52)
6. "Raising the Count" – Cabaret Voltaire (3:32)
7. "Kebab Traume (Live)" – D.A.F (3:50)
8. "Bare Pork" – Furious Pig (1:28)
9. "Raquel" – The Specials (1:56)
10. "I Look Alone" – Buzzcocks (3:00)
11. "Fanfare in the Garden" – Essential Logic (3:00)
12. "Born Again Cretin" – Robert Wyatt (3:07)

Side two

1. "Shouting Out Loud" – The Raincoats (3:19)
2. "Endless Soul" – Josef K (2:27)
3. "Low Profile" – The Blue Orchids (3:47)
4. "Red Nettle" – Virgin Prunes (2:13)
5. "We Could Send Letters" – Aztec Camera (4:57)
6. "Milkmaid" – Red Crayola (2:01)
7. "Don't Get in My Way" – Linx (5:15)
8. "The Day My Pad Went Mad" – The Massed Carnaby St John Cooper Clarkes (1:46)
9. "Jazz Is the Teacher, Funk Is the Preacher" – James Blood Ulmer (4:03)
10. "Close to Home" – Ian Dury (4:13)
11. "Greener Grass" – Gist (2:32)
12. "Parallel Lines" – Subway Sect (2:38)
13. "81 Minutes" – John Cooper Clarke (0:13)

And for C86:

Side one

1. Primal Scream - Velocity Girl
2. The Mighty Lemon Drops - Happy Head
3. The Soup Dragons - Pleasantly Surprised
4. The Wolfhounds - Feeling So Strange Again
5. The Bodines - Therese
6. Mighty Mighty - Law
7. Stump - Buffalo
8. Bogshed - Run To The Temple
9. A Witness - Sharpened Sticks
10. The Pastels - Breaking Lines
11. Age of Chance - From Now On, This Will Be Your God

Side two

1. The Shop Assistants - It's Up To You
2. Close Lobsters - Firestation Towers
3. Miaow - Sport Most Royal
4. Half Man Half Biscuit - I Hate Nerys Hughes ( From The Heart )
5. The Servants - Transparent
6. The Mackenzies - Big Jim (There's no pubs in Heaven)
7. bIG fLAME - New Way (Quick Wash And Brush Up With Liberation Theology)
8. Fuzzbox - Console Me
9. McCarthy - Celestial City
10. The Shrubs - Bullfighter's Bones
11. The Wedding Present - This Boy Can Wait

Here are a couple of links:

Indie pop and Rockism

Taking Sides : C81 vs C86

Happy days. Slightly embarrassing happy days.

Even generously shoehorning the likes of Mighty Mighty and the Close Lobsters into the former category, your still left with Half Man Half Biscuit, Fuzzbox, McCarthy, Age of Chance, Miaow, Shop Assistants, Soup Dragons, Wedding Present adn the Wolfhounds who have no relationship to either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C86_%28music%29

Did this sort of thing really well. Great Lyrics, too:

"I hear backstairs destitution,
Should I walk on?
Should I listen?"

v. similar to Mekons circa "Kill".

Well I don't think this is the thread I was really looking for, but it will do, I was pretty desperate trying to find the one I was thinking of that compared all these late 80's Brit indie bands to Beefheart. Can anyone please find the thread I'm thinking of?

The reason I'm here is look, does anyone remember this band called Slab! ?

I didn't get to hear them until now and I think "People Pie" is fab though I'm not sure how much I'll dig the album it's from. "Mars on Ice" was pretty good, though.

You know what I mean it's the thread where we talked about those late 80's Brit Indie bands. Damnit. You know the ones I mean. Stump were mentioned, and Stitched Back Foot Airman and you know the ones I mean.

MacKenzies, Big Flame. Was it a Big Flame thread?

Well fuck me, it probably is this thread anyway.

bogshed is probably the best band that has ever existed. i'll give 'em a spin. now.

sorry. i just checked. don't think i know anything about slab.

Damnit it's only 6:30 am in Britain I think. See how I'm always doomed with these time zones?

I remember Slab! They sound like their name, right? Kinda monolithic de-funked indie-funk? I liked them in 1986, as I recall.

Yeah Slab! were a noisy indie-funk thing, repetitive bass stuff with a bit of gtr scree over the top. Sort of like Swans-lite trying to make dance music. Actually I saw them once with That Petrol Emotion... and VOTB IIRC!

Thanks guys! It's great to know people remember them.

So, looks like Simon Reynolds has started writing nostalgically about the Bogshed/Big Flame/Pigbros/ Membranes/Nightingales era (whatever it was called):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/feb/13/mid-1980s-revival

http://blissout.blogspot.com/2009/02/heres-my-second-blogpost-for-guardian.html

And I guess this is him writing back in 1985 about it:

http://bringthenoisesimonreynolds.blogspot.com/2007/07/btn-deleted-scene-1-funks-fictional.html

(Actually, nah, now that I actually look at it, that 1985 piece is about other stuff. Don't think I every heard Chakk.)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Death-Trad-Rock-John-Robb/dp/1901447367/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246826560&sr=1-10

In the 1980s, the charts overflowed with what felt to many like the most boring pop music ever made - and the underground exploded. The post-punk scene was a diverse collection of bands brought together by independent releases and aided by reportage in fanzines and airplay by John Peel. This is the first time this era of music has been analysed in such depth, exploring the loose confederation of noisenik outfits including Three Johns, The Membranes, The Ex, Wedding Present, A Witness, Bogshed and Big Flame.

Pretty interested in this but John Robb is going to write it in the style of John Robb and that will make it less good

what felt to many like the most boring pop music ever made

He lost me there.

Wd love to read a good book about those bands tho.

This was a great thread since it made me go back and listen to C86 again. I think my previous posts were much too dismissive. Some of the bands on c86, as everything stated, had nothing to do with the Byrds/Velvets floppy fringe conspiracy or the Beefheart crunch of some of the Ron Johnson bands. The Wolfhounds, for example, where garage band refugees who found a home with Sonic Youth style skree and stutter. Not to mention the lead singer, Dave Callahan, was one bitter guy who knew his way around a lyric. He later went on to found Moonshake who are an entirely different can of worms. Nobody seems to remember the Wolfhounds which is a damn shame. As a side note, I just recently tracked down a live show from Big Flame which is far better than any of their official releases.

A book would be interesting, but may be very difficult to write given the scattered nature of this scene. Most of the bands were quite local and only released a small amount of product. If everything or Rhodri ever to reply to this thread they could sort this out since they were there and involved with the scene. Me, I'm just a yank who bought weird noisy records.

The records generally don't give more than a flavour of how intense these bands were live. I saw the Three Johns, The Membranes, Bogshed and Big Flame over the mid 80's and they were incredible live acts. The Johns and the Membranes in particular toured incessantly, and you always came away from gigs with a bundle of fanzines. I think there was actually a very strong fan network, the more so because this stuff went so much against the vein. John Robb was right in the middle of it all, which makes him well placed to write about it.

As for the charts, I realise that this is ILM, but it certainly felt like the most boring pop music ever made to a lot of us at the time.

An excerpt from John Robb's book which touches on many of the things said on this thread.

I'm looking forward to reading this book - hopefully there are some good interviews in it. I'm more than happy with John Robb as the writer of this book. I can't really think of anyone who's better qualified actually, let alone anyone who would even bother. His writing has absolutely none of the depreciation that some other UK music commentators his age indulge in, especially when they are discussing non-canonical/critically maligned music. This music was very self-confident and positive and so is Robb's writing.

One thing he talks about there is the influence of the Stranglers' bass guitar which I have never really considered but it makes some sense, eg. Let Them Eat Bogshed.

Yes, Burnell's bass playing is an interesting connection. I read somewhere that the Cravats were formed after seeing the Stranglers - puzzled me at the time, as they seemed poles apart, but Shend's bass is very much upfront in their sound. (And, for me, the Cravats and the Very Things were very much the weird elder brothers of the scene Robb is writing about.)

How come nobody told me the Membranes were back together? (We Americans are always the last to learn these things.)

http://thequietus.com/articles/03623-john-robb-the-membranes-reform-interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtG1sLMyfLA

Good vid

Got John Robb's Death To Trad Rock book for Xmas -- Tons of context in there, not to mention more bands I never heard of. Am starting to get obsessed again, and wish I'd kept all my Pigbros and Bogshed and World Domination Enterprises and Big Flame etc. EPs and 45s from back in the '80s when almost nobody else in the U.S. was paying attention.

Get yourself bogged. If you choose.

https://bog-shed.bandcamp.com/album/the-official-bog-set

Mike Bryson RIP ;_;
it were all about dat bass
:-(

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/nov/15/bogshed-bog-set?fbclid=IwAR1ybOITJE6_o6agV0E2tktVi1FkzOxqyWG0jh6mDkezGHO4Ig5LvWwYza4

Wow, shocking that 3 of them are dead. How sad.

Yes, shocking.

CD5 on the bog-set looks exciting - i've only heard half of these on those DVDRs that were doing the rounds turn of the century
CD5 – Who Scoffed The Trill?
1 Budgies
2 This MUST Be Taken Seriously
3 Necktie Murder Shopping Trollies
4 Gathering Change
5 Proper Music
6 You Are This
7 Too Many Personalities
8 The Amazing Roy North Penis Band
9 Hardly Manky
10 I Feel Like A Thing
11 Are You Alive
12 Thankyou Horse
13 Pain Is Nice
14 Lodger Problem
15 Piano Vocal Easy Organ
16 I Taste Little Windmill
17 I Prayed In Your Parlour
18 Monument
19 Soon To Exist
20 Oh Regulation!
21 Sunday Man
22 My Little Heart's In A Whirl
23 Simple Spinal
24 Runner On A Blunder

Yeah nothing there is familiar & should be a fun listen. Mostly looking to hear the later peel session tracks in best quality because that was some gold.

been catching up with this thread today, really great read. Listening to the Death to Trad Rock comp on Spotify. Love this kind of thing, always fascinated by UK bands that didn't didn't fit in with whatever the narrative of what was going on in the UK musically was at that point.

I remember hearing there was supposed to be a volume 2 of "Death To Trad Rock".

just discovered this super fun band… correctly guessed there would be an informative ilm thread <3 would have liked to see them in the day, such a great kind of energy. Adventure of Dog!!!