Tom Waits: classic or dud/search & destroy

You can make the same arguments against Nick Cave or Leonard Cohen - self-consciously trying to be "classic", relying on a persona, heavy- handed American Gothic imagery, doomy vocalisation, literary pretensions, wearing suits & motorcycle boots etc.

sometimes all that seems a bit silly, I admit. Not particularly any more goofy than the pretensions of a lot of other musicians, though.

I don't understand the hypothetical jewel & fiona apple-loving yuppie analogy, really. should people who like bad art only like bad art? are they not worthy of their old blues records? or are all people who like old music (or new music inspired by older music) scared of music that isn't "fossilized into inoffensiveness?"

Or maybe you could give an example of a worthwhile songwriter who isn't trying to sound classic who can be constructively compared with Waits (i.e. not contrasting him with Autechre). I've yet to see ANY songwriter, classic or not, disparage Tom. I think that should count for something.

I agree about the cult of Waits, though I don't think it's as bad as U2/Radiohead, etc. because so much of Tom's persona is kitsch that the negative aspects (often too sentimental, for example) are integral to the package as a whole. This is something I think you have to appreciate about him whether you like the music or not, is that he takes his job as entertainer seriously. Keep that in mind next time you see some Pavement-clones whose singer is afraid to even make eye contact w/ the audience.

I will put in the obligatory defense that Rain Dogs isn't boring. In fact I recommend it as the perfect first purchase for the beginner.

And what the difference is between a "real" or a "fake" beatnik, or what that has to do with anything, I don't know.

(I never listen to the former two, but the point stands.)

The 80s trilogy is the highlight, still, although Bone Machine is just as good. A recent listen to Mule Variations made it seem his worst thing since the 70s to me. His gift for melody seems to have left him on that record. The songs are VERY by the numbers, although the production & lyrics seem up to snuff. Does anyone agree that he fell off sharply with that one?

I gotta go with Gun Street Girl. Love that song. We used to drink in this tiny all night bar in Tokyo and they would play Waits all night. Pretty bizarre.

"The Piano Has Been Drinking" for boozed up fun. "Time" as the best of his ballads.

(I like Fiona Apple btw.)

I guess so. It's just that it's a little off-putting that he started inhabiting that persona at, like, age 21...

Why do people not like Swordfishtrombones? I actually prefer that album to Rain Dogs - shorter. Plus, it's got "Shore Leave" and "Frank's Wild years." Hot cha.

So did Xtina ;) Also, while the persona itself has remained constant, different songs present different perspectives of it; with much of his work, Tom's character (generally in 'observer' mode) is actually less important to the song than the characters he sees. Of course they're filtered through his narrative, but I think he wants to be a pretty reliable narrator most of the time, when not soaked in whisky.

I thought Swordfishtrombones was generally considered to be his best... I always preferred Rain Dogs, though. I still haven't got over how his voice sounds NORMAL on Closing Time.

I love Tom Waits more than life itself.

Sometimes I tell people I moved to the Bay Area in the hopes of bumping into Tom. Even I don't know if I'm joking or not.

haven't listened to him in quite a while though, I kinda overdid it there

The Black Rider is shit-scary... I still need to acquire Bone Machine.

TS: Alice vs Blood Money? I go with the latter, though "Alice" is possibly the best song from the two of them put together.

Now that would be cool. My two favourites working together for the force of mint-ox.

Way Down In The Hole - top "evil preacher" style hellfire-isms with groovy sax breaks.

Big In Japan - again, it's the brassy breaks that do this for me, plus the beatboxing rules.

Such A Scream - I think all three of these songs are quite similar in a way. I like this one too.

With such a vast oeuvre, I had to make painful choices, but I like this list.

Agree on Bone Machine being a peak. Add "Murder in the Red Barn" and "Dirt in the Ground" to the great songs from this record.

(Psst... it's "Hoist That Rag," not "Flag")

typo!

good list! I'd need these somewhere in there too (I'm a sucker for even the schmaltziest Waits material apparently)

Time
Anywhere I Lay My Head
Take It With Me
Falling Down
Yesterday Is Here
Ruby's Arms
Tom Traubert's Blues
God's Away On Business
Another Man's Vine
Gun Street Girl
On the Nickel
Ol' 55

oh, and "Cold, Cold Ground"!

I don't know if "Bone Machine" is a peak, but it did follow a long gap and not only restored his profile but reinvented him as an alternative era hipster (as opposed to net-beatnik weirdo hipster). By "Mule Variations" and that tour he was a full fledged alternative era icon, where he's remained ever since. One of the few short of Leonard Cohen probably even cooler in their late career than during their earlier peaks.

Mule Variations is certified gold! I remember the hosannas at the time but does anyone love it now?

I wore it out but it has a lot of gems. It's a great gateway album and one of the few records my dad and I can agree on.

I think of everything he's done since Bone Machine as one long album (that I rarely listen to, tbh).

Mule Variations felt to me at the time like a schtick-ier sequel to Bone Machine - like that album had hit a pop culture nerve ("Goin' Out West" was in Fight Club!) and he felt internal/external pressure to give people more of the same. The only tracks that really hold up for me are "Cold Water" and "What's He Building?"

Alice and Blood Money were the new ones at the time I interviewed Waits in 2002. I like both of them better than Mule, especially Alice.

Mule Variations feels the point where the Swordfishtrombones career re-invention with Brennan goes on autopilot and the Beefheart spasms start to sound like retreads. It's his only album that lapses in to self-parody, and thankfully he got beyond those cliches he'd established in the 1980s. He hasn't been as consistent since, but that last album shows his peaks are as good as ever. Rain Dogs is tops. There's plenty of fantastic work before Brennan too, and it's not as different as it sometimes seem, just less dissonant.

My favorite of his L.A. balladier early work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3ilqhf1tE

It's missing some of my favorite songs of him:

Green Grass, Red Shoes by the Drugstore and Cold Cold Ground.

Also we all agreed here on ILM that Jockey Full of Bourbon is his number one song. How can that one be missing?

I think of Waits a little like a personal anti-Steely Dan figure...I turned 30 and I dunno, just lost interest. It was hard to imagine, suddenly, growing up/old with his music.

The affectations and the schtick got tiresome. I find it hard to imagine listening to him again like I did 10, 15 years ago (possibly go back to the ballads?)

Oh shit it's also missing Alice!

I usually put on Rain Dogs or Orphans when the urge strikes.

I jumped off the junkwagon with Real Gone. Way too fucking long (72 minutes) and I don't need political songs from Tom Waits. I listen to Tom Waits in order to visit the imaginary planet he lives on, not to hear him gripe about this one. I've never listened to Orphans, but I came back for Bad as Me and liked it.

I like Bad as Me too yet superficially it's not much different from MV.

I don't think of Waits' settings as imaginary, and along with the Brechtian clank, there's been Brechtian social commentary all along about the impossibilities of staying good in an unjust world, with lots of portraits of self-delusional characters who make the world worse. Anachronistic details, yes, but still addressing the real world. Akin to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbYmWrfNJpQ

> I like Bad as Me too yet superficially it's not much different from MV.

I know! Maybe he just needed time off.

I don't need political songs from Tom Waits

I was happy to see "Hell Broke Luce" and "Hoist That Rag" on Alfred's list as they're two of the better anti-war songs anyone's written in the last while

Only Waits show I've ever seen was in a Broadway theatre, prob right after the release of Franks Wild Years. Just great. I'm very fond of the Swordfishtrombones thru Bone Machine period, spotty familiarity with everything else.

i have about 10 of his albums but haven't listened to them in a long time

small change, rain dogs, and franks wild years strike me as the best ones. bone machine is good too

Heartattack and Vine gets slept on despite some A+ songs, especially the ballads, like Jersey Girl and Ruby's Arms.

"Hell Broke Luce" is a great example of how to be influenced by hip hop without trying to make hip hop.

hell broke luce sounds contrived to my ears

cosign on heart attack, that's a great record

faves: Real Gone, Alice/Blood Money, Small Change

Hard to pick but if I had to do one per decade:

70s: blue valentines
80s: swordfishtrombone
90s: bone machine
00s: alice
10s:... i suppose bad as me but there's only one album to pick... surprised he hasn't done much this decade.

Never got the love for Mule Variations, but then I'm not into his straighter blues-oriented stuff and much prefer the Brechtian material really

My fave is "Nighthawks at the diner". It is a little bit like his "Take no Prisoners". He is such a great entertainer and the nightclub atmosphere really fits him well. I used to listen to it on dope, it really intensifies the listening experience. I used to think "Bone Machine" was his last peak after that I lost interest. Finding out that his singing voice is not his real voice did not really help in appreciating his music. On the contrary after that I got pretty tired of his shtick.

real gone is good it's got some siqq ribot playing

ok the first song on real gone is the worst shit he's ever done

Finding out that his singing voice is not his real voice did not really help in appreciating his music.

Actually, his speaking voice (I spent about 2 hours on the phone with him) is not that different from his singing voice at all, just slightly more subdued - 'cause he's talking and not singing. But his speaking voice is definitely gravelly and hoarse. The difference is about what you'd expect. I mean, Robert Plant doesn't speak in high-pitched screams, you know?

Maybe his speaking voice is contrived as well. It could well be that he has "forgotten" his normal voice. There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

there's nothing 'natural' about Tom Waits. his entire act is, well, it's an act. but like you say, it's hard to tell how much of it he has absorbed into his natural persona of course

There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

I disagree, and I'm listening to Closing Time as I type this. The voice sounds almost the same to me, just a little more singer-songwriter/country and a little less Howlin' Wolf/Captain Beefheart. Maybe a little more nasal and a little less chest/throat. That's all.

he didnt go full howlin' until heart attack and vine, which by all accounts is a great success of an album

His voice on the Glitter and Doom live album is verging on death metal. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of nuance on that one, even though the playing is great.