no boys allowed in the room!!!!

but back to the holidays, I think his and his wife's families also have problems like yours and your wife's -- still -- after 20 years

eliza, I no longer speak to most of my family but my dad will still email my spouse which really annoys me. I have these types of "how dare you, whose side are you on" feelings when my spouse stays nice and emails pleasantries back. I had to get over myself and trust him, my relationships and thresholds for people's nonsense are not the same as his. All of this is relatively new for everyone in your life and I assume that your wife, who you likely trust more than most/all? people in the world, will continue to be your biggest supporter in front of her family, even if you are not physically present. All of these *feelings* that your in-laws have, they can take them to the altar, they have nothing to do with you as a person.

That's awful to hear. And I cannot fault the level of support she's shown me throughout all of this, not at all -- a lot of other women would not have had what it takes to stay with a partner who is transitioning. I know I have it better than a lot of other trans women when it comes to that. It just stings a little.

xp

Thanks for explaining to me how the internet works, Sarahell, but, believe it or not, for many years, ILX *was* a group of people who knew each other IRL, and went to the same gigs and clubs and sorted stuff out down the pub. And then a couple of guys turned up who decided they weren't having that 'cuddlestein mountain' atmosphere, and they were more interested in treating the boards as an online version of space invaders, where other posters were merely blips to be shot down.

I know you're sincere when you say you're not *trying* to make excuses for them... but it's always telling, when someone is more interested in repeating those lines, such as "he was really young" (he was in his mid 20s) and "he hadn't yet learned that other people are actually human beings" (a lesson many children manage to grasp by the time they hit double digits) and are really invested in telling others how much that guy has changed and grown up, and how he's such a nicer, more mature dude now - than they are in understanding that these kinds of rationals are exactly what perpetuate the whole system that allows these kinds of dudes to get away with it for so long in the first place. Sorry, but I'm not really interested in any more of those kinds of conversations. The collateral damage was too high.

Spacecadet, there are online communities where people do exactly that? Stuff like Wrong Planet, and the many-faceted blogosphere for #ActuallyAutistic - they're not medical professionals, per se. But given the nature of the beast, often people who actually are/have Autism Spectrum stuff, or ADD, or OCD, know from the inside what it actually feels like, and how it translates into "this weird thing lots of us do" - in a way doctors can be completely useless, because they've only got a checklist of how it looks to doctors.

I don't feel like it's really helpful for me to be on ILX right now, so I'm going to go off and enjoy Berlin for the next few weeks. Have good holidays - or the best holidays you can - everyone.

I feel like you are reading my post in almost the exact opposite way as it was intended. And yes, I am aware of ILX's early history, I am not going to be offended and view your post as condescending -- you were here way before me, and I respect that and your authority on such matters -- and that was why I mentioned "2009". And my post was not meant to "explain" anything to you, it was me, talking about myself, and my experience, and how I learned things, interpret them. That is one of the nice things about this thread, compared to a lot of other threads, where we can say, "I had this experience." and someone else can say, "Oh? Well, I had a somewhat similar experience, and my experience of this thing was more intensive, and isn't that fucked up on a systemic level?" and not turn it into a pissing context about expertise and almost willful misreading, because one of the things that was very common of that era of ILX is finding pieces of other people's posts, interpreting said pieces in a negative, confrontational way, and using them to attack the person. I've seen people do it to you so many times, and you rightly stood up for yourself and called them out. So, it's kinda ... frustrating ... to see this perpetuated.

Branwell for someone so conscious about 1) dudes taking up more than their fair share of conversational space and 2) ‘splainin, maybe check yourself?

That was an xpost

Even though I've only been posting here about 10 years, I have seen people change in terms of how they treat others. And I know your experience was way way way more traumatic than mine, and I'm only posting about it because you brought it up. And in terms of the larger issue -- should we basically do the equivalent of a perma-ban on people who have been harrassing, misogynistic, bullying, etc. or is there a way that reconciliation is possible if the person apologizes, stops behaving like a shit, etc.? Like, this is one of those things that keeps coming up in various communities I'm a part of ... we've called them out, we've removed them from positions of power or situations where they could be abusive, now what?

xpost eliza, for clarification, I hope that didn't come off as "get over yourself and be grateful for your wife's support." I expect that she has thought about this at length and that this will be heavily on her mind when she sees them. It still does suck though.

gyac, ha, I've been trying to ignore the stereotypical OCDness of one of my recent habits: going back to check the door is locked. (I always forget to pay attention while locking it and then genuinely have no idea if it's locked rather than doing it as a ritual, but maybe that's how it usually works.)

I'll, uh, read up on that, thank you.

Eliza, sorry for the Christmas hassles, hope all goes relatively painlessly.

Branwell, thanks for the advice and enjoy Berlin.

sorry for gliding past all other posts, but - general ladies thread solidarity/Christmas survival fistbump, all the best

-- spacecadet (Aries/Taurus cusp, fanatical grudge-holder)

This is very good and reiterates what we have been saying. https://lithub.com/power-walking/

Yet when I have talked to straight men about what happens to me on the streets I have consistently been met with looks of blank innocence. They insist they know nothing of it. I have seen the same conversation played out extensively on social media where the men most devoted to the use of the hashtag #notallmen always claim ignorance, are “surprised,” so “surprised” they’ll go as far as to insist that what women are telling them cannot possibly be true, that invention or exaggeration on a global scale must surely be in play. Talking to a straight man about street harassment can be, as many black folk including black men have pointed out, like talking to some white people about the daily indignities of racism.

As I write this I wonder about all those guys, of every class and color, who have interrupted my thoughts in order to remind me of my place. For whom it was fun to try to unnerve or to humiliate me. To them I say, Just wait. It’s coming. Too late for me. Too late for you to learn much except a mote of what it might be like to be treated as if you don’t matter. But it’s coming.

I’d like to say I wish I were a better person than to feel that way.

I wish I could. But I can’t.

blah ignore the bold text , insert quotes.

a mote indeed. my embarrassing selfish want is a mountain of apologies, real ones. i know full well i am not going to get them but that doesn't stop me from righteously wanting them.

i -- an avoider of internet argument -- hopped into this fb conversation yesterday when a guy i knew socially 15+ years ago asked "do you believe in the patriarchy and/or white male privilege" and then asked his respondents to explain why. needless to say, it devolved fairly quickly into him writing paragraoh upon paragraph of big-word-dropping clueless righteous hair splitting and eventually he managed to add a paragraph conclusion that threw a barb at his ex wife. i kept my responses short and i think my last one was "we all suffer under oppressive systems." i mean...i had no idea this guy was going to open his head and show us all of his brain worms at once.

Idk if this is appropriate for this thread so please tell me to fuck off or whatever, but it’s fashion related and I want your opinions!

I’m getting married later this year, and I know pretty much what I want to do in terms of hair and makeup. It’s a very small wedding and because of how it was originally planned I never intended to wear w wedding dress and still don’t, really. Tbh I never really thought about my wedding and now that it’s actually happening...I still don’t really regret it, ha.

I’m not sure I want to wear white, but I’d like to wear something light coloured, thinking either a dress or separates could be nice.

Anyway please tell me, what did you wear for your wedding day?

I bought sth at the last minute and in a sale. Yes, my wedding was a disaster. Lol. Hey, it could only get better after said debacle. Haha

i wore a heavy long-sleeved satin cream-colored dress with decorative beading that was given to me by a friend after high school. it was her great-aunt's dress and no one else wanted it, so it sat under my bed until i had an occasion to wear it, which was my wedding. I spent no money on it aside from the amount I spent to get the beads repaired.

congrats! wear whatever makes you feel good!!

I got one of those wrap/tie dresses (it’s like a big piece of fabric with two 12 ft long pieces attached to it so you can wear it/wrap all kinds of ways) but it didn’t look very good. I was kinda like you, I’d never really thought about wedding stuff before so I didn’t have any ideas for what I wanted.

If I was doing it over, I think I’d look for a pretty cocktail dress that made me feel good.

Have a look at ModCloth- I know they do some really nice and affordable wedding dresses.

Totally agree with la lechera, wear what makes you feel good. I wore a dark green satin ball gown I got from an inexpensive prom dress site, dyed my hair flaming auburn, it was fantastic.

I had an idea of an emerald green dress that I wanted made but I was too lazy to deal with it. I ended up with a black and white knee length dress I got off the internet and an aviator, fleecey collar leather jacket (I've mentioned before I pretty much got married so I would have a reason to buy this jacket I was obsessed with). For the small dinner and ktown karaoke the day after I got a dark green flapper beaded dress that weighed a ton.

and congrats!

Congrats! Married twice: first time (courthouse, just us and the judge) in an ivory dress made from a regular dress pattern I picked out, knee length V neck with narrow ruffle at neck and 3/4 sleeves. Not a wedding-dress, but kinda bridal I guess. Did not wear it again iirc.

Second (and final) wedding: 40 family and friends (mostly the former tbh; we prioritized what it meant for our aging parents) in our back yard followed by cocktails at the house, than dinner at a nice restaurant down the street. I again had a dress made from a pattern I picked out. Red silk satin (pricey but WOW) wrap dress, knee length, fit like a glove. Wore it quite a few more times over the years to cocktail/dressy occasions. Mr. wore a grey 3 piece suit which has also made many more appearances.

Loved that I got to enjoy wearing that dress many times and that it cost a fraction of a "wedding dress."

My mom would have loved shopping/paying for a "wedding dress" but that was so not gonna happen. At least she got to come to the second and final wedding!

in the uk stores like Monsoon, Asos etc less formal wedding dresses and nice dresses that aren't white/ivory. My friend had a great stylish one which I think was from Ann Taylor or one of those American stores but mail ordered. maybe it was banana republic.

Thanks everyone, I really enjoyed reading these and I’m really grateful for the advice. :)

Kinder - I was thinking of looking there too! Mail order might be a bit too unreliable esp if we have a no deal crash though, plus I’m the world’s least patient person.

maybe it was j.crew.... it was really lovely! wish I could remember where it was actually from!

there was a brand on asos called Needle and Thread that had some lovely beaded stuff a few years ago

btw I am a bit obsessed with wedding dresses, especially non-traditional ones that still look weddingy. so I may get over invested in this!!

my own dress was from a proper wedding shop run by a slightly mad woman and it was from a designer who had out-there stuff. it was just a bodice and fishtail skirt in ivory but the bodice was rad with ribbons and pearls. it came with these flouncy separate sleeves that were awful and I did not wear but still crack me up.

Congrats. :). I wore a very simple off the shoulder satin bridesmaid’s dress that I ordered in off-white. It was gorgeous and not fussy and only about $200. Bridesmaid’s dresses are definitely something to look into if you want something less expensive and simpler than a traditional gown. If I could do the whole thing over again that dress is one of the few things I wouldn’t change!

While you are shopping/mulling over non-wedding dresses you should look at Outnet. That is where I got my dresss from. Not sure what your style is but they have some really nice designer dresses under $300 that might inspire.

i have never gotten married, but i do have a funny wedding dress anecdote from a friend, who had a small, informal, city hall type wedding to her long-time boyfriend -- pretty much it was them and their parents who were all nice normal Midwestern people. Anyway, so my friend is looking for non-wedding wedding dresses and thinks, "ok fine, i will use stupid pinterest to bookmark dress pictures" ... unaware that pinterest was set to automatically post to facebook. So she was mortified to learn that all her cool sound artist and musician friends saw a deluge of posts from her of pinterest pics of dresses

i think i might have told her, "at least you weren't using pinterest to decide on honeymoon lingerie"

omg lol @ that mistake
i would die but i am overly sensitive

Or to look at hentai.

Thank you everyone, you’ve given me so much to think about and look into and I feel really happy and justified in what I want to do now. :) kinder I don’t mind you being invested at all!

xp - she felt like dying at the time, because most of her social media friends were nerdy guys

aw i hope she wasn't TOO hard on herself -- she didn't do anything wrong!

it took her a few days of mortification to decide that it was actually hilarious, and up there with "out of the office" autoresponder email list feedback loops

gyac how is it going?

I came across this website and have no idea about where it is or if it's legit or the prices but these are wild
https://www.chotronette.com/product-category/dresses/?query_type_color=or

btw I imagine you've already looked at Coast and Phase Eight but there's some nice stuff on there

Hi! It’s funny you should bump this today because I think I bought my wedding dress? Work meant I hadn’t really been looking looking (although I did check phase eight & although they have some gorgeous stuff, nothing that jumped out to me). Weirdly though earlier I was on ASOS of all places - like seriously - and saw this & so I guess I’m seeing what it’s actually like on. But I definitely thought of this thread cos I was looking at bridesmaids dresses :)
https://www.asos.com/maya-tall/maya-tall-bridesmaid-long-sleeve-maxi-tulle-dress-with-tonal-delicate-sequins-in-taupe-blush/prd/11128527

I love it. Beautiful.

xpost I would totally wear that pistachio macaroon.

Peach marshmallow for me

Omg those dresses!! I love so many of them. I’d probably wear any of them if they were in front of me but paying for them is a different story. Still, what lovely dresses!! Enchanted Forest and Cappucino were faves iirc

As usual, there’s no shortage of clothing I’d love to wear, but very little I’m interested in paying for.

gyac that's awesome!

That is a very pretty dress! Also, congratulations :)

I like all the ones with stars on them.

I think I'd go for the Goth Fondant but with the sleeve type/shape from the coconut & tchaikovsky -- nah, i have way too many black dresses -- crap, ok, real answer -- midnight cake

Those are magical, I love them (even the aesthetically questionable ones). And tbh by wedding dress pricing standards those aren't *that* much, are they? Not that I subscribe to any such standards.

Peach Marshmallow for total ruffle insanity btw, and Sucre a la Creme for the reception.

In my life, I have now constructed an Instagram-ready capsule wardrobe for my trip to Portugal in less than two weeks, and it's disgustingly hip and current and all black and white and soft rose + grey colors. Pop of yellow for the purse. I'm obsessed. Pleasantly.

I'm so deep into instagram viewing everyone else's travel pics with the hashtags of places we're going, I feel like I've already been there. I need to go on vacation more often.

Also yerac I just want you to know that I've privately decided that you're probably a spy--because of the astonishingly wide range of things you're knowledgeable about, and your travel schedule, and your generally high ability to roll with whatever comes. Out of everyone I know I'm pretty sure you're most likely to secretly be an international person of mystery. Not to blow your cover or anything.