Itunes, Billboard, and the marginalization of black music and black audiences in America

xp it's been a while since billboard stated the specific target ratios they aim for but i would say that streaming accounts for maybe half of the hot 100's points lately. airplay accounts for less than streaming, but not by a whole lot. the influence of download sales trails far behind the other two metrics since their volume has declined so dramatically in recent years, though they are probably overrepresented compared to how (un)important they are as revenue-generators in today's industry. i believe physical sales still count technically but have a nearly negligible effect, as the physical singles market is essentially dead outside of record store day. for the albums chart things are different but, like, a cd sale counts the same as buying the album over itunes.

ty for the kind words y'all :)

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-rhythm-and-beats-state-of-rnb-20181214-htmlstory.html

The LA Times article cites this Billboard one-

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8054003/hip-hop-rb-pop-radio-songs-crossover

Which also deals with these angles:

It may seem counterintuitive to radio outsiders, but Ken Johnson, vp of urban programming for Cumulus Media, believes that the downturn in crossover actually helps mainstream R&B/hip-hop stations. "On the urban side of the ball, I don't look for records to cross over, per se," he explains. "If they don't cross over, it benefits urban radio more. Listeners who are consumers of that music, if they're not getting that on top 40 radio, there's a few places they can still get it, and one of those is urban radio."

As to the reason behind fewer female acts at R&B/hip-hop radio and fewer crossover female acts, radio programmers suggest women are battling both a sexist music industry and the dominance of hip-hop, which rules urban radio but has rarely made room for multiple female artists. "Women have always had a more challenging time in this industry,"

That LA Times article is fascinating (I’d been meaning to read it since it went up).

“I remember when R&B singers sang the song and the rappers did a hook. Now singers are just doing the hooks. And, actually, some rappers are doing the songs and the hooks,” R&B star Tamia says with a laugh.

Still have to read the whole series of articles

That one has the point Dyl made but with less specifics:

In fact, according to a survey Billboard released earlier this year, the volume of R&B and hip-hop songs crossing over to pop radio shrank dramatically between 1993 and 2016.

Yeah I was actually waiting for the workweek to begin (today) to use this one as a listening guide: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-rhythm-and-beats-risk-taking-women-in-rnb-20181214-htmlstory.html

billboard does have a strict mathematical formula that applies to album equivalent units (https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8427967/billboard-changes-streaming-weighting-hot-100-billboard-200) that is meant to mimic the way there was diff monetary values attached to music back when people actually paid for music a la carte. my description there is lacking but it was explained to me by billboard's chart guy to me once & i still don't really get it exactly... but the way they divide streams now by paid vs ad supported is bcuz they see it as a way of having the current charts maintain some sort of historical integrity

i think the "formula" for the hot 100 as it were is fluid based on market consumption, but i think streams to airplay is like roughly a 60/40 ratio right now? you can see in gary trust's weekly stories about the hot 100 that the raw #s between spins and streams for major tracks are pretty similar, but the record breaking streaming weeks i.e. for "thank u next" or 'in my feelings") still hit #s that even huge airplay weeks can't touch. the big difference really is just that streams hit way faster..... songs w/ huge streaming numbers but no airplay regularly debut in the top 10 (the big songs off pretty much any major rap album nowadays), and if radio ever catches on then you end up w/ a giant smash--"lucid world" or "sicko mode" for instance. conversely a song w/ big airplay but relatively little streaming i.e. panic at the disco "high hopes" can also make it into the top 10 it's just an ascent that happens over much a more protracted period of time

"lucid dreams" i mean obv

record breaking streaming weeks i.e. for "thank u next" or 'in my feelings") still hit #s that even huge airplay weeks can't touch

this is a really good point! and it also reminds me: peak airplay audience numbers today don't even come close to what was being attained by the biggest airplay hits several years back. like, just to pick out huge airplay smashes from the past few years, along with what they were racking up at/near their peak (don't have exhaustive data saved)...

(2018) maroon 5 feat. cardi b "girls like you": 128 million audience impressions
(2017) ed sheeran "shape of you": 185 million
(2016) adele "hello": 170 million
(2015) mark ronson "uptown funk": 190 million
(2014) pharrell williams "happy": 226 million
(2013) robin thicke "blurred lines": 229 million

"girls like you" was the most-heard song in the country for 16 straight weeks -- no other song was even close to that this year (or, actually, most years in general). and yet its airplay peak still pales, by far, in comparison to what huge airplay smashes were pulling not too long ago. it's actually a pretty shocking decline over such a short period that i highly doubt is matched by decline in radio listenership overall.

it's worth noting that many of those radio mega-smashes did so well partly because they also got strong rhythmic and black radio play, whether they were crossing from urban to pop ("happy") or in the other direction ("hello", "uptown funk"). given the extent to which rhythmic and black radio hits are being isolated to those two formats, it stands to reason that big airplay hits will continue to have a fairly modest reach compared to where they were a few years ago. and since streaming services are still growing i can't help but wonder if we will reach a point when the top streaming hits each week are consistently, rather than sporadically as it is now, being heard more than the top radio hits.

isn't the reduction in peak airplay impressions also a result of time spent with the radio each week being down - even though weekly reach is still essentially flat?

yeah that would certainly contribute

So what are the demographics on all of this? I have a totally anecdotal sense that the top 40 station in my town is mostly targeted at 25-45 year old white women, which would definitely explain a lack of hip-hop crossover. Their morning DJs are in their 40s and spend a lot of time talking about their kids.

Whereas the urban station has no morning show at all and just plays Drake-Migos-Drake-Cardi-Drake-Malone etc.

Part of the problem may be in thinking of pop stations as mainstream and urban stations as something lesser, when they're actually both just niches. (Even if one niche is say 40 percent larger in its reach than the other.)

So what are the demographics on all of this? I have a totally anecdotal sense that the top 40 station in my town is mostly targeted at 25-45 year old white women, which would definitely explain a lack of hip-hop crossover. Their morning DJs are in their 40s and spend a lot of time talking about their kids.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, December 18, 2018 9:55 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

music played in public spaces and offices

I think some suburban white kids listen to top 40 stations in the car

damn kids

Is there any campaign to, at least, stop radio stations editing out black musicians' verses? It's such a shit petty thing to do.

(Or maybe a campaign to ban Maroon 5 like China did)

i'm not aware of any organized campaigns to improve radio programming decisions (obv i'm not counting label promotions promo campaigns or online stans' requesting campaigns)

lol i actually wrote an email to one of the two top 40 stations in my city when it aired an edit of fifth harmony's "work from home" with ty dolla $ign edited out. (the edit just replaced his section with eight bars of the girls going "work. work. work. work. ...") basically i said that there was no logically consistent rationale that could explain the conscious erasure of his voice from their programming other than his proximity to (black) hip-hop culture + said that was very shitty and says a lot about what they think of their audience (in more eloquent words lol).

they forwarded it to one of the music directors (who i think is now assistant pd) who actually wrote back. basically she gave a canned response of 'thank you for the thoughtful criticism, we make all of our programming decisions on a case-by-case basis and respond to listener feedback' but also said things specifically about hip-hop that made it clear that she actually read/sorta-understood where my argument was coming from lol

that was two years ago when "work from home" was big

basically top 40 is doing all the things today that used to be expected from hot ac stations: editing out rap (or just black) guest vocals, playing more songs that make labels little money thru direct consumer behavior (downloads + streaming) but still 'test well' in passive audience research while accepting less black crossover, formulating a mix that mom and daughter can both listen to in the car or that can be put on in a waiting room, etc.

of course hot ac still does all these things as well which means that lately sometimes the only way to tell the difference between stations of each format is the taglines, lol

Soooo...it feels like this week is some kind of landmark for 21st century whiteness on the Hot 100

1. Oliver Anthony- Rich Men North of Richmond
2. Luke Combs- Fast Car
3. Morgan Wallen- Last Night
4. Taylor Swift- Cruel Summer

Ugh

Holy shit, that song made #1(??)

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100/

That's fucked up!

https://thenewinquiry.com/blog/american-sajaegi/

I hope this makes his life harder

Good article. At the GOP debate the moderator said that Rich Men song was #1 on Billboard, and I assumed it was a digital download chart. This is way bigger and crazier.

Soooo...it feels like this week is some kind of landmark for 21st century whiteness on the Hot 100

1. Oliver Anthony- Rich Men North of Richmond
2. Luke Combs- Fast Car
3. Morgan Wallen- Last Night
4. Taylor Swift- Cruel Summer

seems weird to lump Luke Combs and Taylor Swift in with Oliver Anthony and Morgan Wallen in this context

I knew that "Rich Men" was #1, I didn't realize that a four-year-old T-Swift song had made a resurgence.

xpost not really. Luke Combs is a country artist and Swift started in country music. We've had a summer where a white superstar's tour has overshadowed everything else.

xp agree, Swift doesn't really seem relevant here (and #5 is Rema & Selena Gomez, fwiw)

20 years ago this week the top 10 was:

Beyonce- Crazy in Love
Chingy- Right Thurr
Nelly- Shake Ya Tailfeather
50 Cent- PIMP
Fabolous- Into You
Lil Jon- Get Low
Pharrell- Frontin'
matchbox 20- unwell
The Black Eyed Peas- Where Is the Love
Lumidee- Never Leave You

This week the only Black artists in the top 10 are Rema, Gunna & Nicki Minaj (featuring Ice Spice)

the year of chingy

On the plus side, Jason Aldean's "Try That in a Small Town" (which also reached #1 a couple weeks back) is plummeting like a stone

Beyonce- Crazy in Love
Chingy- Right Thurr
Nelly- Shake Ya Tailfeather
50 Cent- PIMP
Fabolous- Into You
Lil Jon- Get Low
Pharrell- Frontin'
matchbox 20- unwell
The Black Eyed Peas- Where Is the Love
Lumidee- Never Leave You

would poll

xp it may have fallen far from its perch at the top, but it is gaining a lot in airplay at the country format (where it had been struggling pre-controversy) and in general seems likely to stabilize + do much better in the long run than a jason aldean song otherwise would have in 2023

xposts ok i didn't realize that by "21st century whiteness" you meant "country music"

Not sure I understand your quibble. Is Taylor Swift not white?

This is a thread about how white artists have supplanted black artists at the top of the charts. It’s been going on for awhile now, but the invasion of country acts is a fairly recent thing.

I think I just misunderstood your post - I thought you meant "whiteness" as in white supremacy because "Rich Men" and Morgan Wallen are on there

The world-conquering Korean boy band BTS has spoken out directly against sajaegi in the past, and it’s easy to see why. The group’s fans like to view them as insurgent underdogs fighting for truth and virtuousness against a corrupt, dishonest world. In the Korean market, this means viewing them as true artists operating in an industry that revolves around manufactured groups. In America, it means seeing them as freedom fighters who seek to overcome the racist, nationalist gatekeeping that keeps the pop mainstream white and English-speaking. In both cases, it is of paramount importance to both fans and the group themselves that their chart victories are seen as legitimate.

The New Rockism

xp Fwiw, I did too (as opposed to this being the first time four white artists have occupied the top 4 slots, if that is the case/point)

oliver anthony being able to sustain across multiple songs what jason aldean could not does not surprise me

Obviously having a number 1 by a white guy bitching about welfare is a bit different than having the top spots filled with Miley, Timberlake, Katy Perry and Adele or whoever.

the tweet i saw on another thread where OA claimed that the welfare line was about trump -- this was a joke?

Dude probably wasn't remotely prepared for the level of scrutiny and is trying to play it down the middle now

i don't think it's entirely inappropriate to include taylor in an observation abt 'whiteness' at the top of the charts. sure, she is remarkably popular and not rly a 'country' musician anymore... but being white is clearly not entirely irrelevant to her current moment. i hope i am not coming off as disrespectful or rude to say this, but in all the talk recently about how she's enjoying a level of pop superstardom not seen since mj and madonna, the elephant in the room for me has basically been the fact that those two artists had significant numbers of black fans that swift simply seems not to. to me, it would also be accurate to say she's enjoying the biggest level of pop superstardom while also inspiring indifference or worse among most black americans since the beatles

i know some swift fans are a bit insecure about this topic and swear up and down that her fanbase is almost exactly as diverse as the general population so i'll add some qualifiers: yes, of course some black people like taylor swift, certainly casually but also even a lot. i've met a few who like her music much more than i do. but literally all of those i've met have told me, without my having to ask, that the revelation that they like her so much has inspired mockery and other negative judgment from other black people, whereas i've never heard anyone suggest that they felt embarrassed to say they liked madonna because other black people would make fun of them. i don't know what it is -- maybe the country background, maybe all the lyrics about blue eyes in her old music or other lyrical content that some have criticized as a 'preening white princess' routine, but idk, it seems to be real. her audiences at her huge tour dates (including in cities like atlanta and detroit!) appear to be nearly as white as that of an always-and-forever country artist. maybe the american industry just spent the past decade quietly resegregating its audiences and this is the most obvious result of it

it could be that her music fucking sucks!

Dude probably wasn't remotely prepared for the level of scrutiny and is trying to play it down the middle now

Ask him if the Jews did 9/11.

the elephant in the room for me has basically been the fact that those two artists had significant numbers of black fans that swift simply seems not to...maybe the american industry just spent the past decade quietly resegregating its audiences and this is the most obvious result of it

You don't go multiplatinum without having a majority white audience. True for Taylor Swift, true for Beyoncé, true for Kanye West or any other artist you care to name.