Trans/Genderqueer/Agender/Questioning Thread

propose we rename "rolling maleness and masculinity thread" to "rolling heteronormative thread"

i never know how to behave around trans women

one of the saddest things about being non-conforming is the way trans people tend to avoid each other for fear of being "made"

personally i'm really encouraged and inspired whenever i see a trans woman in public but i know when most people make trans women they don't make them as heroines

I know exactly what you mean. Even when I'm in a space I know is safe I don't want to put a trans or nonbinary/nonconforming person in a position they don't want to be in. e.g. one of the bartenders at a place I go to regularly, a place I know is welcoming of the LGBTQIA+ community, is gender nonconforming, but I don't know them well and vice versa, so it's not like we spend a lot of time chatting or anything. I don't even know their pronouns. :\

On a happier note, this week marks five months of HRT for me, and while looking in the mirror every day and thinking "BE MORE FEMININE MORE QUICKLY" is very frustrating, I looked at a picture from about a year ago, and then compared it today. I had just gotten some green highlights added to my hair after determining with my therapist that I should try something to be kind of confrontational/nonconforming/"out," but I look fat and dumpy and unhappy. This morning's picture really does look like an entirely different person. A longtime friend recently told me, when I posted a pic on FB, "This is the first time I've seen *you*, Liz, and not just the shadow of Phil." That made me feel really good.

https://i.imgur.com/1mUaNLO.jpg

you look fantastic, congrats!

cried a little reading that, thank you for sharing as always liz, and you do look fantastic <3

excellent glasses also!
do you mind me asking what the hrt does in terms of how you feel? hormones are mad stuff, I had a regular very specific and strong hormone-enduced dysphoric experience (luckily extremely brief - it was so obviously linked to a physical thing it didn't worry me) but I have no real grasp of what other stuff gets really affected by changes in hormones

I seem to be past any ill effects, even after having my dosage of estrogen raised from 2mg to 4mg last month, but when I first started I had pretty bad nausea for quite a while, along with hot flashes and sensitivity to cold. (My wife found this particularly funny, in a "now you know how it feels" kind of way.) All the other changes have been positive, so far as I can tell -- softer, more translucent skin on my face, more defined cheekbones, finer hair growth on my arms, slower body hair growth all over, etc.

lovely to read your story, Liz. you look so wonderful. <3

i changed my name this week (Matthew, to Em) and came out as non-binary to those i know. i'm a bit bashful and can't stand attention, though - and i still present neutrally. but i felt compelled to do something. i feel like a phoney, like i'm not trans enough, or something - but i've knew i was trans since i was at least 14... it's just things were rough where i was growing up, so i could never acknowledge it comfortably. i would crossdress privately, but it always made me feel worse. instead of adjusting physically, seeking support, i escaped into chatrooms and cybersex for years where i could explore my sexuality/identity safely - spent at least ten years wrapped up in escapism. it's so strange to be acknowledged, accepted, and addressed in a virtual environment as your true gender, engaging with others and developing relationships/self... only to logout and nothing's changed. the self you developed is completely virtual, and nobody can really see 'you' outside of that environment.

in some sort of attempt at developing an identity, i attempted to embrace masculinity the past two years - grew a beard, developed some confidence through a hetero relationship i had. i felt like i was living a double life up to a point. i negated so much femininity to accord to social custom. it left me filled with anger. i had to stop pretending. i still often feel consumed by masculinity and it's like i just need to rid my body of it.

as far as the binary goes, i still kind of believe that balance of gender is important within everyone. maybe this is mickey mouse science but it's just a simple theory i hold. i feel like the root of many men's anger and distress is because of this 'toxic masculinity', that they have no outlet for femininity/are raised to be ashamed of it. anger is not something i have experienced much, at all, up until i began to repress my femininity.

this year, when i decided to ease up on cybersex/online activity, all my dysphoria came screaming to the forefront of my life. i drank so much, but i'm out of those woods, now, too. dypshoria still eats away at me daily and i don't really recognise myself in the mirror. my hair is so short, i cut off so much of it in self destructive behaviour. i suppose a name change is the first step in trying to positively acknowledge dysphoria. i know it's going to be at least a year before i manage to get on anything like anti-androgens, HRT. i'm not terribly unhappy with my body, and i'm kind of femme naturally, anyway (aside all my body hair). i just really wish i had the means to deal with this years ago, but here we are.

it's easy enough to feel comfortable/natural being your best trans self in empathetic company, when alone, in virtual spaces etc., but when it comes to work environments, family stuff, it's still really tough. maybe when my hairs long enough ill feel comfortable dressing more femme. at any rate here's to a new year of constructive development over self-destruction. love to anyone else struggling.

Em <3

i still often feel consumed by masculinity and it's like i just need to rid my body of it.

extremely real right here.

So much of that sounds sooooo familiar, Em -- in the early days of the internet I did the same things, exploring my identity via IRC chat rooms, AOL forums and other places, and it always left me extremely unfulfilled. Like you said, I'd log out and nothing would be any different. <3 to you and know that there's a big queer family out here supporting you!

congrats em. i know what you mean about the body hair - a lot of what kept me from acknowledging my issues was not having to put all the work in to look good as i'm very lazy. i just feel so much better without all that hair, though!

i don't like all the testosterone i have in my body, but i find myself surprised at how much i can attenuate the tendency towards anger and violence just by not behaving in culturally male ways. i know how camp i sound when i do it, but talking in a softer tone, using more variation in tone, really emphasizing the upper part of my range, it all makes me feel a lot happier and more relaxed.

maybe i'm being overly negative, but until the idea of men being feminine stops meeting such hostility and resistance, i'm not sure what hope there is for "masculinity".

Great strides Liz and Em. Leave it all behind, the future belongs to future you.

thanks lovely people.

i can attenuate the tendency towards anger and violence just by not behaving in culturally male ways

nail on the head. my masc. confidence and personality spoke louder (figuratively) than my feminine, given the environments i grew up in - pubs, working class places, etc. part of me doesn't want to lose this extroverted joviality; it's how my friends know me - i'm still figuring out how to be confident and outspoken and feel femme, too. i don't want to feel muted and shy, but i very much did forget how to be gentle!

informed my boss of my preferred pronouns today and how i'd like to be addressed by them at work. she was so supportive in response i almost started crying

anyway: that's pretty good progress

good job! i look forward to talking about pronouns this first week of classes. it feels super good to be inclusive!!

Brad <3

My oldest (13) is going through puberty and "figuring" things out. She's into gender politics, learning about... herself/sexuality,... I told her I just want her to be happy. So whatever she identifies as: I love her. I love reading this thread. I'll go back to lurking.

Yay, Brad!

Brad that's great!

i'm glad this thread is here too

i'm mostly not dealing with shit. whenever i think about things my thoughts get so dark so quick. it's surprising how quickly shaving has become a habit for me, though. i thought it would be time-consuming and unpleasant. it's really just time-consuming.

Pretty great reply from Nick Cave to this question in his newsletter:

I’m non-binary, which (sorry if you already know this) means I feel neither male nor female. To most of the people who know me in this shitty country town, I’m a butch dyke. My amazing girlfriend got me into your music, and I honestly can’t adequately thank her for it, and can’t adequately thank you. Especially when I saw some of the music videos, the androgyny and sort of cross-genderedness of your performance style (my girlfriend agrees you often bring an amazing drag-queen energy) make me feel so seen and understood, in a way I never get to in my real life. I never thought I’d see the physical embodiment of what my mind desperately wants my body to be like, though it’ll never be. It was an unformed yearning before. I want to be like you when I grow up. I guess my question is, what would you say to as not-man, not-woman, pseudo-dyke fan and their unformed yearning to feel right in their body and now has an admittedly unattainable model for exactly what they want to be?

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/unformed-yearning-to-feel-right-in-their-body/?fbclid=IwAR2jXVSm-4qLhkbRutLFRpL3IWISfGjqAmCX0y2WAkIgjUsh04SCovvifxY

petition to make nick cave the new pope

because seriously fuck the pope

It also seems that for most of my life I felt a strange gravitational pull toward an undisclosed traumatic event, that could only be described as a dreadful yearning, and I found it eventually in my son’s death – something that both destroyed me and ultimately defined me.

Wow

cis guy here with maybe some dumb thoughts that i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask or bring it up. but i'm curious what the ILX community such as we are could do to be better on trans/NB/intersex gender stuff, in the interest of going beyond tolerant to being actively helpful. for example, i have noticed people using pronouns for other posters where i'm pretty sure those are not that person's pronouns, but i don't myself know what their pronouns are. like lots of ILX knowledge, the facts are probably in some thread somewhere, but who knows where, and would it be my place to step in and correct anyway, or would folks in general prefer to handle that themselves? i wonder if it might even be an interface question - would it be good if profile pages, or the posting signature, have an (optional) space to put pronouns, or would that create other problems or pressures?

this inspired me to put my pronouns in my profile, so thanks doc

aww you're welcome. just did the same.

also, love the DN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnJ5ixcFyU

been practicing my spivaks lately; that shit is hard to rewire your brain around

I almost never look at profiles unless someone's being an absolute dick and may be about to get banned, I should probably check them more often.

In terms of the original question, I'd probably try to do a friendly "not sure you've got these pronouns right" post, not accusatory but just giving someone a heads-up. That's assuming that the poster they're referring to has expressed what pronouns they prefer on this forum - it's a reasonable thing to keep details of your life off ilx, even though we're generally pretty non-anonymous.

ilx is doing fine, the only thing that would help is if the board was more active, which can't be helped i don't think. i keep thinking about starting a 77 thread for trans/nb/genderqueer issues but i just don't think the board's active enough anymore for it. i just cannibalize the bi thread, which people there are fine with.

pronouns in profiles an excellent idea! i’ll definitely do that.

btw i have something to say re 77 but will keep it to 77

and just picking up doctor casino’s points: in my ~~~journey~~~ (not for this thread) i’ve picked up a hell of a lot of detailed language and etiquette around gender identity and sexuality, and would love to make myself available to help or talk about any of this. my ilx email address is long dead but i’ll happily make a new account with my real email address if it would help.

for the record i did go ahead and start a 77 trans/nb/genderqueer thread but to be honest I don't know how much use it will get, I'm only familiar with three current regulars who self-describe that way and I don't even know if the other two are on 77. I think it's nice to have a semi-public space to talk in-depth about some of this stuff but at the same time I have a pretty strong aversion to being the only one in the room talking, if I'm gonna journal I'll just journal and not post it anywhere.

I have a pretty strong aversion to being the only one in the room talking

same, but being a 77 thread it could grow in detail and patronage (general e.g.: there is a load of stuff i would never say off 77)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1h31hVGSw

I am not on 77 but would be happy to talk about my transition and related issues there.

somebody give eliza 77 access already! :)

Hi everyone! As of yesterday I'm officially out as a transgender woman. I'm Kate. It's good to know all of you!

Hi Kate. Congrats!

Wow, congrats!

That's so awesome, congrats Kate!

hi kate!!!! congratulations <3

howdy everyone!

congrats Kate!

Yayte!

Way to go Kate!

Kate! <3 Congratulations!!!

yay kate ❤️

thanks again everyone! also Eliza I don't want to embarrass you but I do want to say that there were a lot of people who transitioned before me and just seeing their experience helped me a lot, helped give me the confidence to realize I could do this and it was possible for me, and you were definitely one of them in a big way for me, so I want to thank you for that.