truth bombs

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afaik charter schools cannot deny students on the basis of race am i wrong?

― Mordy, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:59 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are you asking this in good faith? you and i have talked about this quite a bit on other threads. it's sort of grand secondary gain of the entire urban charter school movement, and also the, silicon valley, uh, "school reform" edvestors.

remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:15 (seven months ago) link

it's a bit uneven, but the first part is really great -- he has a great anecdote about the Direct Action Network being given a car as a donation and how anarchist/radical org structures are challenged by things like that

― sarahell, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:47 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ah yeah i def read this specific excerpt somewhere

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:15 (seven months ago) link

Since their inception, a defining characteristic of charter schools has been their tendency to serve highly racially concentrated student bodies. For example, national attendance data gathered during the 2014-2015 school year showed that 54 percent of charters in the United States were nonwhite segregated and 12 percent were predominantly white.69

this is from the stancil piece- i'm not sure that it's obvious what someone should read out of this information tbph.

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:16 (seven months ago) link

remy i remember discussing charter schools here on ilx before but if you think we reached some kind of consensus between us about the racial discrimination policies of charter schools i def don't remember that. maybe u can link me to the other discussion tho i'm happy to reread if i'm forgetting something.

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:17 (seven months ago) link

i'm interested in his understanding of the data bc he seems to be arguing that charter schools mostly exist for white parents to take their white kids out of public schools and send them to charter schools instead and afaiui that is not substantiated by the demographic information tho maybe tlg can speak better to this

I don't know if charter schools are the same as free schools in the UK, sorry England, but that's pretty much what free schools are for here - I suppose more accurately they're for white middle class parents to take their kids out of state schools where there are too many kids from poor or ethnic minority backgrounds, often the same thing in London.

Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:19 (seven months ago) link

look at the quote i just posted tho. does that support a narrative that charter schools exist for white parents to put their kids in?

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:19 (seven months ago) link

... without the expense of having their children go to private schools. (xp)

Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:20 (seven months ago) link

Tom D - yep, it's very similar

sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:21 (seven months ago) link

fair enough, mordy. i searched for the thead but i can't find it. i know it was about the 2016 ballot measure question in massachusetts. for those interested:

this is nearly ten years old, and still holds water: https://www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/k-12-education/integration-and-diversity/choice-without-equity-2009-report
this is from the brookings institution (of all places!) and summarizes more recent observations https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/12/11/how-charter-schools-are-prolonging-segregation/
and this is the union line: http://neatoday.org/2018/05/04/racial-segregation-in-charter-schools/

remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:24 (seven months ago) link

i think of myself as a pragmatic anarchist (though sometimes the pragmatist wins out -- ) so it's an issue, of how to set up a system where people have agency to resist oppressive structures without allowing rich and powerful douchebags to take advantage of the system for their douchey ends.

sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:24 (seven months ago) link

The fact that, over here, the supporters of the free school system tend to be hideous right wing ideologues is a bit of a clue.

Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:24 (seven months ago) link

*sigh* yeah ... we have a similar issue w/r/t live/work housing.

sarahell, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:25 (seven months ago) link

just to be clear -- i think the quote above suggests that charter schools mostly exist to serve nonwhite communities. compared to the 12 percent of predominately white charter schools "30 percent of traditional schools were predominantly white"

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:26 (seven months ago) link

remy from that neatoday article: "While only 4 percent of traditional public schools have student bodies that are 99 percent minority (2014-15 school year data), 17 percent of charter schools are 99 percent minority. Furthermore, of the 6,747 charter schools in the country, more than 1,000 had minority enrollment of at least 99 percent." bc we're talking about charter schools we're talking about segregation of nonwhite student populations by choice. this is hardly the same thing as white segregation to "protect" white kids from minorities.

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:35 (seven months ago) link

Should we do the same thing with waiting rooms and water fountains if people are opting in?

remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 22:56 (seven months ago) link

im kind of ok about segregation on group basis from non-majority populations (i mean i personally went to a state catholic school in scotland, where the introduction of such schools in the early 20th century was vehemently opposed by political protestantism with the slogan "No Rome on the rates!") but the other forms of "social selectivity" which in some cases comes along with the free or charter school model as it exists in Sweden, England and the U.S. is pretty sus' imo

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:00 (seven months ago) link

For real –– I don't mean to be zingy. But, I mean,. urban public schools often suck and are unfair and ESPECIALLY terrible at teaching non-white students. And they're actually trying to fix things. Even if it's bureaucratically difficult. Unhappy, nad aware of these issues, parents of non-white students respond to enticements to bring their students to charters that frequently practice extreme discipline practices, skirt teaching regulations, exploit their labor force and chronically underserve students needing special education. Often these schools are white-owned, for-profit entities. At best this is a profiteering dodge of the real issue; at worst it's resegregation.

remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:02 (seven months ago) link

Should we do the same thing with waiting rooms and water fountains if people are opting in?

i'm sure there are waiting rooms and water fountains with extremely segregated clienteles and i don't believe we should forcibly desegregate them

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:05 (seven months ago) link

"this water fountain in a 99% black community is used 99% by black water drinkers and is reifying segregation we must bus in white water drinkers and bus out black water drinkers to other water fountains to achieve equality" i mean c'mon

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:05 (seven months ago) link

You realize this an argument in favor of Jim Crow laws, right?

remy bean, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:07 (seven months ago) link

no it really isn't related at all

Mordy, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:11 (seven months ago) link

Wish this was all in a different thread at this point

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:15 (seven months ago) link

truth bungs

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 28 November 2018 23:49 (seven months ago) link

Charter schools in the United States

made yall a thread

21st savagery fox (m bison), Thursday, 29 November 2018 01:41 (seven months ago) link

very US Politics-centric but:

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Never believe a sentence that contains the words "Schumer" and "insist."

― grawlix (unperson), Friday, December 7, 2018 12:22 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 7 December 2018 20:11 (seven months ago) link

three months pass...

I don't discuss my personal life or problems online

tbf half of ilm is people doing exactly this, they're just couching it in language that makes it look like they're commenting on popular music

― mh, Thursday, March 14, 2019 3:25 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

macropuente (map), Friday, 15 March 2019 01:14 (four months ago) link

three months pass...

most bands don't have one good song

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

sleeve, Friday, 5 July 2019 15:28 (one week ago) link


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