Search And Destroy: Belle And Sebastian

This thread made me go and reread the A.V. Club Random Rules piece with Fran Healy where he talks about seeing B&S' first show. Long post, but well worth checking out.

https://music.avclub.com/random-rules-fran-healy-of-travis-1798215586

Belle And Sebastian, "We Rule The School"

FH: This is turning out good. Stuart (Murdoch) is an old friend of mine from Glasgow. He and I were best friends with two sisters. His friend was called Kiera, and my friend was called Jude. His dad was a really famous Irish writer; it was a big eye-opening moment in my life to get to hang out at their place, because they were so cultured. His dad would listen to classical music in his front room and stand and conduct it. He would have loads of really cool arty-fartsy people over at the house. I was just a kid, like 16 or 17. Stuart was a really nice guy, but slightly annoying. He always pulled his cardigan cuffs over his hands and twiddled with the wool at the corner. He always looked down at his feet, and I was like, "For fuck's sake!"

I remember I was just starting out in a band, and he wasn't in a band or anything, one day he wrote a review of our show. It was like our second show, and he absolutely pasted us. He was just so horrible about it. I sat down and confronted him on the stairs at the front of Jude's house in Glasgow. I was like, "Stuart, what the fuck? Give us a chance, man." He was like, "Oh, I just thought, um, I just didn't really enjoy it." I'm like, "Fuck you, come on! It was our second show." He totally gave us a pasting, and I never forgave him.

Then one day in Glasgow at the art school—I think Stuart was at university—I think we were in second year, and it was evening. We were at the art-school bar, and there were people setting up musical equipment. I saw Stuart and I said, "Say, man. What are you doing?" He was like, "We are going to play a gig." I'm thinking, "Oh yes! This is going to be rubbish. Fucking brilliant!" So all of our mates, we all got pints, and we are sitting waiting for this horrible gig to happen, while we sit and gloat in the front row.

They were setting up and we had a few drinks. Then it all goes quiet. Stuart steps up, still playing with the wool at the end of his cardigan, and he's like, (Whispers) "Hi. We're Belle And Sebastian." "Oh God, this is going to be rubbish. He's not even projecting." He went up to the mic, and everyone is so quiet, because we couldn't bloody hear the guy talk. You could hear a pin drop and he went, (Sings.) "I was surprised / I was happy for a day" and started playing ["The State That I Am In"]. Everyone's jaws hit the floor. To this day, it was one of the best gigs I've ever been to. I was like, "Fuck! Not only are you kind of smug, but you are amazing as well." I went up to him after and was like, "I so wanted that to be shit." He was so sweet. He was like, "Thanks. Thanks a lot." That was the first gig they ever played. It was the Glasgow Arts School at the Vic Bar. They are just amazing.

I love that even the guy from Travis thinks Stuart Murdoch can be a bit much.

Mulling over what I was babbling about earlier, I think the band has always made good stuff, but it's those first couple collections of songs that earn them the reverence.

That is an awesome story.

This from John McKeown of The Yummy Fur is good too

Yeah, cos even Belle and Sebastian struggle. I heard that when they go to America they have to book a separate seat for their cello, and they don't even get the complimentary food!

No way man!!! I can just see Stuart going up to the pilot and saying "don't you know who I am?" Stuart's like the person I've known longest in Glasgow - since '86 or something. He was always like the least likely to succeed, and least likely to do a band. Stuart tried to form a Kraut-rock band with me and Lawrence once, do this, do that, and it was always" aye, aye Stuart, Another one of Stuart's mad ideas" in fact they used to be, before they did Belle and Sebastian, they were called Le Pastie De la Bourgeoisie. Me and my sister and Jamie, we lived across from Greggs, (bakery) and we spray-painted that. We wanted to do a Jean-Luc Godard meets '68 slogan, but totally empty, really empty, empty statement. But Stuart must've seen it written on the side of Greggs' wall, and took it or whatever, which I thought was quite nice.

FH: This is turning out good. Stuart (Murdoch) is an old friend of mine from Glasgow. He and I were best friends with two sisters. His friend was called Kiera, and my friend was called Jude. His dad was a really famous Irish writer; it was a big eye-opening moment in my life to get to hang out at their place, because they were so cultured. His dad would listen to classical music in his front room and stand and conduct it. He would have loads of really cool arty-fartsy people over at the house. I was just a kid, like 16 or 17. Stuart was a really nice guy, but slightly annoying. He always pulled his cardigan cuffs over his hands and twiddled with the wool at the corner. He always looked down at his feet, and I was like, "For fuck's sake!"

I think "His dad" should read "Their dad" (ie the sisters). And she's Ciara, not Kiera!

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15033795.former-belle-and-sebastian-album-model-among-ten-aspiring-writers-given-grants-to-launch-careers/

His dad was a really famous Irish writer;

Not sure if I parsed this correctly, but this is a very different picture than SM paints of his father!

XP, ah that's it.

Yes, I was thinking is his Dad really Irish because Stuart Murdoch is like the most Scottish name imaginable.

Also wasn't Stuart Murdoch like 27 or 28 when they played their first gig?

ahaha, yeah, that makes more sense if it was the friend's dad. i also watched the pitchfork doc on Sinister (which is pretty good) and stevie jackson recounts listening to Tigermilk for the first time and telling Stuart "we're going to be rich!". and after reading the travis guy's story, i was thinking "...but wasn't Stuart already rich?"

I like this:

http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/may_2001/arab_strap_interview.html

AL: How do you feel about Belle & Sebastian calling their record The Boy With The Arab Strap?

Aidan: They have a sense of humor.

Malcolm: Because Arab Strap is quite an interesting name. The words go well together. That's why we chose it as a band name. We're friends with them, but there's a limit to putting someone else's name on a album. They’re taking away something from us.

AL: Did people think it was an Arab Strap album?

Malcolm: Uh. yeah.

Aidan: Helena Christensen did.

Malcolm: Many people bought it because they thought it was a collaboration between both bands. We still see them around in Glasgow.

Btw, revisiting that album now (it's been a while)... pleased to find that the songs I used to really like (about half of them) still sound great. The title track is super...

were they pissed off about space boy dream? cause that's a parody of an arab strap song in everything but name (cool outro though)

I love Tigermilk and If You're Feeling Sinister, thought The Boy With the Arab Strap was patchy, then pretty much got off the bus until Dear Catastrophe Waitress drew me back in.

the smiths comparisons to me were mostly around the album/single art.

yeah, for sure. 90% sepia tone album art, 10% willingness to express emotional vulnerability

Looking forward to Murdoch's embracing of fascism and white supremacy.

"gather up your wings and fly" by Felt is soooo proto-B&S

I'm curious as to what general consensus is wrt "EP version" of "The State I Am In" vs. "album version" of same

I listened to the EP version approx 100x more often than the album version, has a more naked and effective vocal performance but the arrangement on the album version is just deluxe loveliness

you said it imo, the "deluxe loveliness" of the album version seals the deal for me, though I do love the ep version too

were they pissed off about space boy dream? cause that's a parody of an arab strap song in everything but name (cool outro though)

― galaxy brian (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 27 November 2018 20:00 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

B&S had a competition to "do a window display for the "Boy with .." album, and it got won by someone who got aidan Moffatt to sit in the window etc. So, I guess it was a mixed blessing, or something.

And that's nothing compared to putting a photo of a different band entirely on the front of "Fold yr deckchair"

The State I Am In is all about the guitar coming in at 0.46, the EP version doesn't have that and I cannot forgive it

I like the addition of the rising bassline going into the choruses too, a bit of musical fellwalking

Cal Wiggum
1 month ago
This should have been played during the credits of Black Panther

[enjoyed this yt comment on "i'm a cuckoo (avalanches remix)"]

worst record, Fold Your Arms...(duh), worst track, 'Before the Sun' by a long margin (why God, why?!)

― Michael, Sunday, February 4, 2001 8:00 PM bookmarkflaglink

At their show last night, they played a neo-psych version of "Before the Sunrise" which was part Age of Aquarius and part Stone Roses, and went a long was towards rehabilitating the song.

Their setlist was heavy on tracks from Fold Your Hands, for some reason -- they're pretty self-aware about which songs/albums are fan favorites, so maybe they're making a concerted effort to improve that album's legacy?

In a recent interview about the Boaty Weekender, Stuart Murdoch said that he wants to play the entire "Fold Your Hands" album during those concert dates because the 20th anniversary of that album is coming up.

xp

Did it improve any of it for you? I did wonder when i saw the recent Manchester show setlist; SEVEN tracks from a non-classic old album.. wtf.

Also it's Stevie Jackson's 2nd least-liked album!
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/kzgqj9/rank-your-records-belle-and-sebastian-guitarist-stevie-jackson

The new arrangement of "Before The Sunrise" was definitely a huge improvement, making me the think the primary problem with the original was that ponderous Leonard Cohen style arrangement.

They also played "Family Tree" and "The Wrong Girl", which I don't know if I'll ever come around on, and "Nice Day for a Sulk", which I've always enjoyed.

I was at the Manchester show and bloody love Fold Your Hands (#3 in the recent poll but probably #2 atm over DCW) so I was rather delighted. Especially "Women's Realm" and "There's Too Much Love" which are just absolute bangers and keep climbing on the list of my favs. Stevie's vocals really impressed me in general but maybe a little less so on "The Wrong Girl". The string arrangements throughout were just so on point though. Joyous evening.

Fold Your Hands totally deserves to be revisited/reappraised. It's B&S at their most baroque, plus "The Model" is their best song ever, imo.

i was just going to post, "The Model" is probably in my top 3 B&S songs of all time. incredible arrangement, incredible lyrics. i remember when the record came out and i was so shocked that many of my friends didn't like it!

There are a couple of good songs on it, sure, but no, please, FYHCYWLAP is really not a good album. The moment The Wrong Girl starts is their all-time nadir.

It beats the shit out of Dear Catastrophe Waitress.

Which was when I stopped paying attention. What a garbage record.

Nah, it's good. The Life Pursuit is good too. Even Storytelling is better than Fold Your Hands.

I will say my sister has exactly the same opinion as you. But she is also wrong.

DCW is totally unlistenable, it's all good.

Nah, it's good. The Life Pursuit is good too. Even Storytelling is better than Fold Your Hands.

eh, it's fine that y'all are wrong.

41,889 ILX posts can’t be wrong

DCW is just front-loaded with what seemed, in the recent poll here, to be a couple of their most divisive tracks. It's unfashionable to say it out loud, but the world is still waiting for a truly garbage B&S LP!

Surprisingly, for a forum that grew in large part from B&S fandom, there has been no mention yet of the band’s new song and video "Sister Buddha", part of a film soundtrack that will be released in September.

I must admit disappoint with the song, and it is also crazy that Stuart Murdoch chooses again to use the phrase "coffee bean" (in the singular) to complete a rhyme. It was already bad enough on "We were Beautiful". Inspiration seems to be running low.

Perhaps that is a reason that Fold Your Hands has risen in some fans’ rankings. At the time of its release, it was decried as an experiment in forced democracy, handing responsibilities over to the bandmates when people just wanted to hear Stuart Murdoch. But over time, Stevie and Sarah’s contributions have become rather more welcome, and indeed on the last couple of B&S albums a lot of the least inspired tunes IMHO were Murdoch ones.

The neo-psych version on Beyond the Sunrise might be the lengthy, mostly instrumental track I lost from my mp3 library a long time ago (vocals took a back seat). I’m still not convinced it was just some mislabeled audio galaxy download. It was realllly good.

FYHC has like 5 songs that are excellent on it ('Fought', 'Model', 'Realm', 'Family', 'Too Much Love') and the rest is straight up hard to enjoy.

That said, weirdly I feel similar about Boy With The Arab Strap, and I tend to go back to Fold Your Hands more than that album.

DCW is one of their best albums.

i agree with you for the most part, Dog Latin, though i really love "Waiting for the Moon to Rise," too, and would include it among those you mention.

would add don't leave the light on baby as well

^yup

With the exception of the last couple of albums, which I can't remember listening to, Fold Your Hands remains the Belle and Sebastian album whose entire track list scans as unrecognizable to me. Like, not ringing the slightest of bells.