Search And Destroy: Belle And Sebastian

quick mix for anyone who's only familiar with the early stuff to help get caught up with some obvious highlights:

Stay Loose
If She Wants Me
I'm a Cuckoo
Wrapped Up In Books
Your Cover's Blown
Another Sunny Day
White Collar Boy
Dress Up In You
Mornington Crescent
I Want the World to Stop
Sunday's Pretty Icons
I Didn't See It Coming
The Cat With the Cream
Nobody's Empire
Play for Today
The Same Star

https://open.spotify.com/user/suckerblues/playlist/22MZ6qdAASHRVZq4R90mwr?si=lHBGxTBtRwa_9yyagD3jgw

I just realized I posted thi to the wrong B$S thread. oh well

So many cameos in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvqhSMAlkhQ

I guess it was made by Lance Bangs in Athens, which explains the presence of so many E6 folks but also Corin Tucker.

As Hoffman board has Beatles, so ILX has B&S

Xps Have followed, thanks,

The other parts of the puzzle for me - Smiths, VU, Motown, Love, S&G accepted - are the Left Banke, the Zombies and Colin Blunstone.

And I wonder about that 'crutches' lyric. It might just be an unintentional echo but it's always made me think of Kentucky Ave.

We can probably agree that they are one of the few bands, like Led Zeppelin, who wrote a bunch of good songs but could still probably be well captured or defined by the first song on their first album.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, November 26, 2018 3:33 PM (yesterday)

This feels like a criticism to me and I'm not sure what that criticism is. Is it that they don't quite have, say, the normal stylistic range that a comparable, well-loved group with a similar size discography would have?

Yes Zombies of course I should've thought that

Go-Betweens?

Yes Zombies of course I should've thought that

― fgti is for (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, November 27, 2018 10:32 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

listening to boy with the arab strap right now, and the intro to "simple things" is "she's not there"

I think that criticism is true of the first few albums, but there's a lot more sonic diversity and disparate genre exercises on the last few records (for good and ill). It's all filtered through their fey lens, sure, but it's a more diverse set of influences and sonics nonetheless.

xpost Hmm, I don't think it's a criticism. Or didn't mean it as such. Just that the band had almost miraculously figured what it did best pretty early on and how to do it. Very much like, say, the Cars. Or even the Smiths, I suppose; "This Charming Man" is about as good as it gets, but it doesn't mean the band doesn't get that good again. Same with LZ. Imo. Like, LZ and Smiths can be captured pretty well by those introductory early tracks, This Charming Man and Good Times, Bad Times, but the band remained good for its duration. The Cars ... less so. There was clearly a case of diminishing returns. But back to B&S, I'd argue that the bulk of the things the band has been criticized for over the years has been deviation from that initial template. Letting others sing and write, stylistic detours, etc, which even this far down the line feels kind of precarious or tentative or ad hoc, despite a long-stable line-up. Since those first couple of records it's seemingly been a constant case of "now this is the band I fell in love with!" or "finally B&S is back on track!" and stuff like that. In fact, I'd argue the band has been eliciting those reactions for longer than it hasn't.

Dunno, just thinking out loud here. It's admittedly my personal bias that for all the high points not a single album after the first couple has felt essential to me.

I watched the ...Sinister P4K documentary today and it really brought home how good Murdoch is at creating simple images of travel (he's only lucid when he's riding buses); how so many of his lyrical images are seen through windows or are of people going from here to there. It's the poetry of exile and it's got some of that pressed up against the window quality of Larkin, albeit Murdoch arguably found a way in where Larkin never did (at least not in his poetry).

Poetry of exile is a nice way to put it. It's hard to know how much weight to give his origin story, but stuck in bed with chronic fatigue seems as good a source of inspiration as any.

This thread made me go and reread the A.V. Club Random Rules piece with Fran Healy where he talks about seeing B&S' first show. Long post, but well worth checking out.

https://music.avclub.com/random-rules-fran-healy-of-travis-1798215586

Belle And Sebastian, "We Rule The School"

FH: This is turning out good. Stuart (Murdoch) is an old friend of mine from Glasgow. He and I were best friends with two sisters. His friend was called Kiera, and my friend was called Jude. His dad was a really famous Irish writer; it was a big eye-opening moment in my life to get to hang out at their place, because they were so cultured. His dad would listen to classical music in his front room and stand and conduct it. He would have loads of really cool arty-fartsy people over at the house. I was just a kid, like 16 or 17. Stuart was a really nice guy, but slightly annoying. He always pulled his cardigan cuffs over his hands and twiddled with the wool at the corner. He always looked down at his feet, and I was like, "For fuck's sake!"

I remember I was just starting out in a band, and he wasn't in a band or anything, one day he wrote a review of our show. It was like our second show, and he absolutely pasted us. He was just so horrible about it. I sat down and confronted him on the stairs at the front of Jude's house in Glasgow. I was like, "Stuart, what the fuck? Give us a chance, man." He was like, "Oh, I just thought, um, I just didn't really enjoy it." I'm like, "Fuck you, come on! It was our second show." He totally gave us a pasting, and I never forgave him.

Then one day in Glasgow at the art school—I think Stuart was at university—I think we were in second year, and it was evening. We were at the art-school bar, and there were people setting up musical equipment. I saw Stuart and I said, "Say, man. What are you doing?" He was like, "We are going to play a gig." I'm thinking, "Oh yes! This is going to be rubbish. Fucking brilliant!" So all of our mates, we all got pints, and we are sitting waiting for this horrible gig to happen, while we sit and gloat in the front row.

They were setting up and we had a few drinks. Then it all goes quiet. Stuart steps up, still playing with the wool at the end of his cardigan, and he's like, (Whispers) "Hi. We're Belle And Sebastian." "Oh God, this is going to be rubbish. He's not even projecting." He went up to the mic, and everyone is so quiet, because we couldn't bloody hear the guy talk. You could hear a pin drop and he went, (Sings.) "I was surprised / I was happy for a day" and started playing ["The State That I Am In"]. Everyone's jaws hit the floor. To this day, it was one of the best gigs I've ever been to. I was like, "Fuck! Not only are you kind of smug, but you are amazing as well." I went up to him after and was like, "I so wanted that to be shit." He was so sweet. He was like, "Thanks. Thanks a lot." That was the first gig they ever played. It was the Glasgow Arts School at the Vic Bar. They are just amazing.

I love that even the guy from Travis thinks Stuart Murdoch can be a bit much.

Mulling over what I was babbling about earlier, I think the band has always made good stuff, but it's those first couple collections of songs that earn them the reverence.

That is an awesome story.

This from John McKeown of The Yummy Fur is good too

Yeah, cos even Belle and Sebastian struggle. I heard that when they go to America they have to book a separate seat for their cello, and they don't even get the complimentary food!

No way man!!! I can just see Stuart going up to the pilot and saying "don't you know who I am?" Stuart's like the person I've known longest in Glasgow - since '86 or something. He was always like the least likely to succeed, and least likely to do a band. Stuart tried to form a Kraut-rock band with me and Lawrence once, do this, do that, and it was always" aye, aye Stuart, Another one of Stuart's mad ideas" in fact they used to be, before they did Belle and Sebastian, they were called Le Pastie De la Bourgeoisie. Me and my sister and Jamie, we lived across from Greggs, (bakery) and we spray-painted that. We wanted to do a Jean-Luc Godard meets '68 slogan, but totally empty, really empty, empty statement. But Stuart must've seen it written on the side of Greggs' wall, and took it or whatever, which I thought was quite nice.

FH: This is turning out good. Stuart (Murdoch) is an old friend of mine from Glasgow. He and I were best friends with two sisters. His friend was called Kiera, and my friend was called Jude. His dad was a really famous Irish writer; it was a big eye-opening moment in my life to get to hang out at their place, because they were so cultured. His dad would listen to classical music in his front room and stand and conduct it. He would have loads of really cool arty-fartsy people over at the house. I was just a kid, like 16 or 17. Stuart was a really nice guy, but slightly annoying. He always pulled his cardigan cuffs over his hands and twiddled with the wool at the corner. He always looked down at his feet, and I was like, "For fuck's sake!"

I think "His dad" should read "Their dad" (ie the sisters). And she's Ciara, not Kiera!

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15033795.former-belle-and-sebastian-album-model-among-ten-aspiring-writers-given-grants-to-launch-careers/

His dad was a really famous Irish writer;

Not sure if I parsed this correctly, but this is a very different picture than SM paints of his father!

XP, ah that's it.

Yes, I was thinking is his Dad really Irish because Stuart Murdoch is like the most Scottish name imaginable.

Also wasn't Stuart Murdoch like 27 or 28 when they played their first gig?

ahaha, yeah, that makes more sense if it was the friend's dad. i also watched the pitchfork doc on Sinister (which is pretty good) and stevie jackson recounts listening to Tigermilk for the first time and telling Stuart "we're going to be rich!". and after reading the travis guy's story, i was thinking "...but wasn't Stuart already rich?"

I like this:

http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/may_2001/arab_strap_interview.html

AL: How do you feel about Belle & Sebastian calling their record The Boy With The Arab Strap?

Aidan: They have a sense of humor.

Malcolm: Because Arab Strap is quite an interesting name. The words go well together. That's why we chose it as a band name. We're friends with them, but there's a limit to putting someone else's name on a album. They’re taking away something from us.

AL: Did people think it was an Arab Strap album?

Malcolm: Uh. yeah.

Aidan: Helena Christensen did.

Malcolm: Many people bought it because they thought it was a collaboration between both bands. We still see them around in Glasgow.

Btw, revisiting that album now (it's been a while)... pleased to find that the songs I used to really like (about half of them) still sound great. The title track is super...

were they pissed off about space boy dream? cause that's a parody of an arab strap song in everything but name (cool outro though)

I love Tigermilk and If You're Feeling Sinister, thought The Boy With the Arab Strap was patchy, then pretty much got off the bus until Dear Catastrophe Waitress drew me back in.

the smiths comparisons to me were mostly around the album/single art.

yeah, for sure. 90% sepia tone album art, 10% willingness to express emotional vulnerability

Looking forward to Murdoch's embracing of fascism and white supremacy.

"gather up your wings and fly" by Felt is soooo proto-B&S

I'm curious as to what general consensus is wrt "EP version" of "The State I Am In" vs. "album version" of same

I listened to the EP version approx 100x more often than the album version, has a more naked and effective vocal performance but the arrangement on the album version is just deluxe loveliness

you said it imo, the "deluxe loveliness" of the album version seals the deal for me, though I do love the ep version too

were they pissed off about space boy dream? cause that's a parody of an arab strap song in everything but name (cool outro though)

― galaxy brian (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 27 November 2018 20:00 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

B&S had a competition to "do a window display for the "Boy with .." album, and it got won by someone who got aidan Moffatt to sit in the window etc. So, I guess it was a mixed blessing, or something.

And that's nothing compared to putting a photo of a different band entirely on the front of "Fold yr deckchair"

The State I Am In is all about the guitar coming in at 0.46, the EP version doesn't have that and I cannot forgive it

I like the addition of the rising bassline going into the choruses too, a bit of musical fellwalking

Cal Wiggum
1 month ago
This should have been played during the credits of Black Panther

[enjoyed this yt comment on "i'm a cuckoo (avalanches remix)"]

worst record, Fold Your Arms...(duh), worst track, 'Before the Sun' by a long margin (why God, why?!)

― Michael, Sunday, February 4, 2001 8:00 PM bookmarkflaglink

At their show last night, they played a neo-psych version of "Before the Sunrise" which was part Age of Aquarius and part Stone Roses, and went a long was towards rehabilitating the song.

Their setlist was heavy on tracks from Fold Your Hands, for some reason -- they're pretty self-aware about which songs/albums are fan favorites, so maybe they're making a concerted effort to improve that album's legacy?

In a recent interview about the Boaty Weekender, Stuart Murdoch said that he wants to play the entire "Fold Your Hands" album during those concert dates because the 20th anniversary of that album is coming up.

xp

Did it improve any of it for you? I did wonder when i saw the recent Manchester show setlist; SEVEN tracks from a non-classic old album.. wtf.

Also it's Stevie Jackson's 2nd least-liked album!
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/kzgqj9/rank-your-records-belle-and-sebastian-guitarist-stevie-jackson

The new arrangement of "Before The Sunrise" was definitely a huge improvement, making me the think the primary problem with the original was that ponderous Leonard Cohen style arrangement.

They also played "Family Tree" and "The Wrong Girl", which I don't know if I'll ever come around on, and "Nice Day for a Sulk", which I've always enjoyed.

I was at the Manchester show and bloody love Fold Your Hands (#3 in the recent poll but probably #2 atm over DCW) so I was rather delighted. Especially "Women's Realm" and "There's Too Much Love" which are just absolute bangers and keep climbing on the list of my favs. Stevie's vocals really impressed me in general but maybe a little less so on "The Wrong Girl". The string arrangements throughout were just so on point though. Joyous evening.

Fold Your Hands totally deserves to be revisited/reappraised. It's B&S at their most baroque, plus "The Model" is their best song ever, imo.

i was just going to post, "The Model" is probably in my top 3 B&S songs of all time. incredible arrangement, incredible lyrics. i remember when the record came out and i was so shocked that many of my friends didn't like it!

There are a couple of good songs on it, sure, but no, please, FYHCYWLAP is really not a good album. The moment The Wrong Girl starts is their all-time nadir.

It beats the shit out of Dear Catastrophe Waitress.

Which was when I stopped paying attention. What a garbage record.