POLLercoaster Ride - ILM Artist Poll #94 - Belle and Sebastian - Discussion/Campaigning Thread

First run through is 34 songs and nothing post DCW. I need to do some listening (and could do with some recommendations...).

Yeah I both a) want to give a fair listen to post-DCW material and b) don't really know how to cut down DCW and before to 30 songs...

I Want the World to Stop from Write About Love and Play For Today from Girls in Peacetime stood way out to me on those moderately disappointing albums.

Play for Today and Cat with the Cream destined for my ballot.

Write About Love and I Didn't See It Coming stand a good chance as well.

Nobody's Empire from Girls in Peacetime will be top ten on my ballot, you should definitely check that out.

What do people reckon about PTBBOTS / Songs for Children? One song or two?

They're not obviously related as compositions, but they've never been issued as separate tracks. Hmmmmm. Perhaps we can separate them if someone expresses a desire to vote for the latter independently of the former. Otherwise...

"the book of you" from girls in peacetime is top ten and maybe even top five b&s for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yDPPdqyW8w

oh yeah "nobody's empire" is also way up there

Well damn I already submitted my ballot sans "Push Barman..." but it is far and away my favourite B&S "album" (as was the CD-R I made from a friend's 3-EP boxset before "Barman..." was released)

Stuart Murdoch basically hits the ball when he writes one of his signature traipsing melodies (e.g. the verses of "Beautiful", the whole of "Piazza, New York Catcher") and pairs it with a deliciously misanthropic sentiment. I've thought for hours about "I was moved to kick the crutches from my crippled friend / my crippled friend" which is enormously difficult to unpack-- the character is an asshole for kicking crutches, the songwriter himself is an asshole for singing "crippled", and yet the line seems to be loving, the repetition of "my crippled friend" suggests a commemorative quality to the moment. Or the entirely of "Lazy Jane" which is both gaze-y upon its subject and simultaneously appreciative, tossing off a "and... she's bisexual? not that there's anything.." moment with the boy/girl flip on the choruses. I can't really figure out of this kind of Jerk Protagonist lyrical approach is just a revision of Morrissey or if Murdoch has invented his own unique brand of sympathetic assholism

Their song 'Are You Coming Over For Christmas?' pretty much always makes it onto my alternative xmas mixes. We'll see how festive I am come poll submission.

XP: I think the first thing I did with Napster was construct exactly such an EP compilation. Barman might be my #1 too. Happy to accept amendments!

I can't really justify voting for anything later than oooh... "I'm Waking Up To Us" maybe? I always loved the performative melodrama in that one.

The first thing I've noticed going through these (I've got through the first 2 LPs and first 2 EPs) is that the opaque coyness I originally suspected to be about being gay is actually more like opaque coyness about being Christian. I'm fine with this now, but do wonder whether it would have put me off had I realised at the time I was listening to Christian rock.

I've thought for hours about "I was moved to kick the crutches from my crippled friend / my crippled friend" which is enormously difficult to unpack-- the character is an asshole for kicking crutches, the songwriter himself is an asshole for singing "crippled", and yet the line seems to be loving, the repetition of "my crippled friend" suggests a commemorative quality to the moment.

I thought it was less that he’s an asshole and more that he’s having delusions of being a faith healer, but I’ve never been quite clear on exactly what’s going on in the song. I do love that it’s one of those songs where each line changes the story.

Swear i think this might be their best song, maybe it just makes me a bit 'emo' because a girl i know said it helped her at a difficult time. It's about Stuart Murdoch's illness (ME) that he had when he was young and he shares towards the end the sage advice he received about how one might conquer fears/difficulties generally. I think it's everything a song should be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgb8am3NQU0

Jonathan David will place high in my ballot. Such a singalong (if you share my talent for hitting high notes)

I didn't rank my ballot but it's "I Know Where The Summer Goes" because I am corny and I have good taste

"Nobody's Empire" is easily my favourite post-TLP track. Will be high up on my ballot.

this is going to be the first of these epic polls i will participate in

i'm finally qualified

this is going to be fun, i don't know the early stuff by them so looking forward to diving in. my favorite is The Life Pursuit as it sounds like a single collection more than an album.

also good job on the set up Nag! Nag! Nag!, as i don't think you have done one of these yet. it's a lot of work but also a lot of fun. have a good time!

New B&S makes me sad. I think Stuart David and Isobel Campbell shaped the band into something good. Upon their departure the shape of B&S was more volatile. It was a bright period of discovery in which they ventured down some untrodden territory; but at the same time they neglected their signature sound and space. That volatilty produced some random goodies alongside klunkers. However, it couldn’t sustain itself for very long. B&S slowly deflated into a “cool” (read as dull), spiritless, poo emoticon shape. Some say that on a particularly twee evening you can stick your head out the window and hear the ghost of Stuart moonlighting as his former self.

wtf @ that nonsense

Thry lost their innocence and you cant get that back.

every band falls off eventually. i don't think it's something to be sad about or lament

Jonathan David will place high in my ballot. Such a singalong (if you share my talent for hitting high notes)

Is Jonathan David the consensus favorite Stevie Jackson song? I like it a lot, but I've always found the chords and melody of the verses to be a little jarring. Can someone with a better grasp of theory explain what's going on there to make it so cartoonishly spooky and dissonant, like is it an abundance of diminished chords or something like that?

I'd go with To Be Myself Completely for top Stevie track--wistful pop-soul classicism with nice background vox from Stuart.

oh jeez "dirty dream number two" is the best song in the world

this is really great if yers haven't seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4de-RHHLCBA

(an hour long doc)

oh jeez "dirty dream number two" is the best song in the world

yup

it's really something

Is Jonathan David the consensus favorite Stevie Jackson song? I like it a lot, but I've always found the chords and melody of the verses to be a little jarring. Can someone with a better grasp of theory explain what's going on there to make it so cartoonishly spooky and dissonant, like is it an abundance of diminished chords or something like that?

not a theory expert, but there's a lot of modulation--the verse, pre-chorus/bridge, and chorus are all in different keys. and the verse chord progression is very chromatic with a lot of close chord changes (goes from G to G# a lot, which is an uncommon change in modern pop). also some shifts between the major and minor versions of chords. basically, they throw in every chord-theory trick in the book.

good song

Cheers Bee OK!

Not sure about the consensus, but "Jonathan David" is almost certainly my favourite SJ contribution. Likely top 10. And the promo video makes me laugh very reliably indeed. The other tracks on that single are also luvly, not least "The Loneliness of a Middle Distance Runner"...which I also need to hear without delay.

Stevie Jackson is a truly lovely individual, just saying

Jonathan David is essentially a Forever Changes/Alone Again Or homage, no?

listening to Write About Love for the first time, and although I like it better than Life Pursuit, on first listen, it's "I Want the World to Stop" that really stands out. the title track is pretty good, too

Oh, I've been following the other thread and completely missed that this was happening. I'm excited! It's been a while since we've polled a group where I knew all of their material inside and out like B&S.

DIrty Dream #2 is pure joy and the best of their 'Motown' songs.

I never liked DD#2 too much; the arrangement tipped into the wrong end of pastiche for me.

I will be participating in this poll.

Looking forward to relistening to those old songs I used to obsess over, and giving the last two albums a go.

I suspect my tolerance for the teenage girl character songs will have dwindled.

Aren't the Pocketbook Angel et al demos pre B&S?

My B&S deep-dive starts now! Is "Dog on Wheels" supposed to be an homage to/ripoff of "Maybe the People Would Be the Time or Between Clark and Hilldale" by Love?

Xps First listen to stuff from Peacetime - Play for Today is fabulous.

xp It's kind of like Love covering Summer Wine by Nancy Sinatra and Lee Hazlewood

I can’t dislike any album up through FYH.. because those albums all all blend together into their signature sound (or mix tape) that I like so much

XP: That was my very first impression of B&S. "So this Belle & Sebastian thing the Indiepop List has been going on about for months is basically...Love, if 'Dog On Wheels' is any indication. Groovy!" or similar.

Jonathan David is essentially a Forever Changes/Alone Again Or homage, no?

― everything, Monday, November 26, 2018 10:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is how I feel about I’m Waking Up to Us (forever changes, not alone again)

^ Similar here. I was just thinking before that my most persistent earworms this week were things like "Poor Boy", "Come On Sister", "Didn't See It Coming" and "Power of Three", none of which were even close to being on my list. They could probably sustain a career on their second and third tier songs alone.

Okay, I'll start closing this now.

I'll take what I have to be the final numbers for the albums and EPs (the order, at least, looks to be quite stable now anyway) and get that ready for the countdown thread. I might be able to start that as early as late evening, my time. (Perhaps midday GMT)

If Van Horn Street still has a tracks ballot to submit, hopefully I'll see that in the next few hours.

Results thread:

Could we please be objective cause the other POLLS are queuing up behind us - Artist Poll #94 - Belle & Sebastian - RESULTS