Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

xp. also Spain is the largest recipient of African refugees in Europe. I suppose no one cares about them either, same as Italy. I mean neither of them are Denmark

in fairness it is true that the US doesn't really care about the welfare of the ppl in the countries it bombs

in fairness, the greatest eagerness to bomb Libya was among European leaders and the campaign was carried out by several NATO members, not just the US.

Yeah, nobody cares about Spain either. Nor Greece, btw.

there was plenty of enthusiasm for bombing libya coming from the subject of this thread

Fred Ving

https://youtu.be/PyM4uAJBujA

xp

I was addressing the implication that the US was the sole participant in the bombing of Libya. I already acknowledged that within the Obama administration, HRC was the most enthusiastic proponent of that bombing. She certainly has a share of the responsibility, but she was by no means alone and was incapable of dropping a single bomb on Libya through her own orders. Those orders came from more than one head of state, who, by rights also share the greatest responsibility.

There’s no implication there besides the argument only you’re seeing. Nobody said she was solely responsible. Maybe you could address the actual points made now?

When one goes through the Sydney Blumenthal emails and Seymour Hersh's reportage, the impression one gets is that the Benghazi insurgency was 100% Sarkozy's doing in Fall 2010, Cameron joined in March 2011 out of European unity, and the main push for US involvement was Samantha Powers ("Rwanda, never again"), with much of State dubious. There wasn't a US military involvement until the Benghazi militia displayed their incompetence, retreated, and French and British bombers were already enroute. I can only infer that the main reason for any US participation is the long held consensus that the US should discourage any independent European foreign policy.

Even then, the US never bothered sending a carrier group, just a small amphibious group that could do traffic control, pilot search-and-rescue, and deliver a handful of SpecOps types. France/UK outweighed the US in sorties and tonnage, but the US sent a couple hundred cruise missiles from the naval group.

I see this point I have not specifically addressed:

the US doesn't really care about the welfare of the ppl in the countries it bombs

All I can say is that this is such a gross oversimplification that it is not worth addressing in any detail.

did you wear a MAGA hat while you typed that?

gee, do you complain about how conservatives oversimplify complex issues and progressives are so much smarter because they analyze problems in greater depth and include more factors? And do you complain about how conservatives carry on political conversations by quickly reducing them to name calling and taunts as an illegitimate way to assert a non-existent superiority?

oh fuck off, aimless

you can quit being ilx's own version of william f buckley any time now

Aimless has never molested anyone on a yacht, I'm sure.

ppl who get mad at aimless, eesh

I said one of his posts was nearly content free, so of course he's mad at me.

I was posting about Chelsea's teeth and it isn't sexist because for starters the Clintons aren't even human beings.

― calzino, Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:15 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

clean hit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/state-dept-intensifies-email-probe-of-hillary-clintons-former-aides/2019/09/28/9f15497e-e1f2-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

“This has nothing to do with who is in the White House,” said a senior State Department official

Yes I’m
Sure it doesn’t

MEA CULPA

I regret any time I spent enabling the establishment's incrementalism rather than pushing for systemic progressive change.

— Peter Daou (@peterdaou) September 29, 2019

lol

im gonna say dud

Hillary Clinton Defends Joe Biden After Controversy About How He Interacts with Women and Girls: 'Get Over It' https://t.co/S1V6YvTCQe

— People (@people) September 29, 2019

whoa re daou

legit astonishing

I guess he finally surrendered himself.

yeah chairman daou has been good for a while now, you love to see it tbh

so he's endorsing Beto?

hillary defending joe b should be surprising to exactly no one

the Peter Daou thing is incredible to me, you never see people deeply entrenched like that just see the light so...suddenly

xp Sure but the way she did it 😂

“We can pick apart anybody. I mean, that’s a great spectator sport. But this man who’s there in the Oval Office right now poses a clear and present danger to the future of the United States. So get over it,” Clinton said. “Look at the candidates, look at what they’ve accomplished, look at what they have fought for — and vote for anybody to get rid of Donald Trump.”

this faction is still so outraged that primaries exist

hillary defending joe b should be surprising to exactly no one

yup. she sees only 'the good man I know' and looks right past the testimony of women who say otherwise. "get over it" could not be more dismissive.

Dauo was on some podcasts a few months ago talking very progressive stuff. The hosts were kind of like are you for real?

Hillary Clinton is probably the best candidate liberal democracy has to offer.

al gore

yeah, he was great too. picking joe lieberman as his veep was a classic consensus-building move.

https://www.out.com/transgender/2019/10/14/hillary-clinton-says-we-must-be-sensitive-transphobia

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ComplexFatKitfox-size_restricted.gif

At first glance I thought maybe that was just another out-of-context twitter gotcha, but this is the kicker:

“There are women who'd say [to a trans woman], ‘You know what, you've never had the kind of life experiences that I've had, so I respect who you are, but don't tell me you're the same as me,’” Hillary said. “I hear that conversation all the time.”

"I hear that conversation all the time...in my head."

she did go on a listening tour

she did essentially summarize a terf argument yes. i hear it all the time too

wow I wonder if Hillary will survive getting cancelled

huge lol at this all coming out during a discussion about ‘the book of gutsy women’

I mean, I hear a lot of things all the time

people are saying

Fuck off, Hillary

had a big fight about my wife about this, despite neither of us having any particular clue about what it was she actually said. argument turned out to have little to nothing to do with what she actually said, because, you know, what does it even fucking matter these days.

whatever, i can't even get upset at her at this point. oh god no some boomer trying to sell a book is engaging in mealy-mouthed equivocation! fine, she can be the voice of her generation's sickness, and chelsea can just shoot out death glares like "why the fuck are we even talking about this, jesus".

yeah i could be mad at her like i could be mad at my mom or i could just, you know, cut them both out of my life. and that's more what i'm trying to do.

At best, it looks like she’s admitting that trans issues are something boomers have ignored historically ignored and that she’s suddenly being asked to learn/have a position on something that’s new to her. Except that’s not the case: as the Out article explains, she made trans-inclusion a part of her 2016 campaign and now appears to be staking out a middle ground in order to please....who, exactly?

At best, it looks like she’s admitting that trans issues are something boomers have ignored historically ignored and that she’s suddenly being asked to learn/have a position on something that’s new to her. Except that’s not the case: as the Out article explains, she made trans-inclusion a part of her 2016 campaign and now appears to be staking out a middle ground in order to please....who, exactly?

― Maria Edgelord (cryptosicko)

oh, that's an easy one. people who want to carry the torch for "liberal democracy" and "respecting other people's opinions", who are the bulk of her target market at this point. i mean, who but hillary clinton is speaking to the struggles of the poor put-upon white cishet boomers? we all know they're the real victims of trumpism.

I increasingly think she is just a fucking idiot
https://www.axios.com/hillary-clinton-tulsi-gabbard-russia-d963ab0c-cd57-4f14-875b-65e63ea1781a.html

Like an idiot in the sense of a smart but non-exceptional A student who has always played by the rules and maximized every advantage she had in life and never really proven herself.