Where's "cause I've misplaced my magic wand that will instantly slam on the brakes"
― coetzee.cx (wins), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 10:43 (five years ago) link
i have no blobs and i must poll — harlan ellison
― mark s, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 10:44 (five years ago) link
where is 'can finally indulge cannibalistic urges' option
― sign up for my waterless urinals webinar (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 10:50 (five years ago) link
^yes I feel unrepresented
― single bed mentality (||||||||), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:00 (five years ago) link
"terrified of staining UK's pure democracy" is the funniest reason
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:02 (five years ago) link
A more pertinent argument is the damage that would be done by a structural rise in support for the Far Right but I think that's going to happen regardless.
This was previously my argument but I’ve come round to your way of thinking. I guess it’s inevitable when the literal government are enabling this all the way to the bitter end.
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:02 (five years ago) link
The stealing of corpses from cemeteries became so common that in many regions armed guards had to be posted on their gates. Hunting and killing people for their flesh was also a common phenomenon. In the town of Pugachev it was dangerous for children to go out after dark since there were known to be bands of cannibals and traders who killed them to eat or sell their tender flesh. In the Novouzensk region there were bands of children who killed adults for their meat...Moreover, the craving for human flesh which starving people can easily develop once they have eaten it was not peculiar to any social class. Hungry doctors often succumbed to eating it after long spells of relief work in the famine region, and they too stated that the worst part of the experience was "the insuperable and uncomfortable craving" which they had acquired for human flesh.
Moreover, the craving for human flesh which starving people can easily develop once they have eaten it was not peculiar to any social class. Hungry doctors often succumbed to eating it after long spells of relief work in the famine region, and they too stated that the worst part of the experience was "the insuperable and uncomfortable craving" which they had acquired for human flesh.
lol we're all gonna taste quite good with a bit of garlic and some stock
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:06 (five years ago) link
Sulking tankie ftw
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:14 (five years ago) link
Where's the 'then we can get back to being a British Empire again' option?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:20 (five years ago) link
also known as 'the empire strikes back' option
― sign up for my waterless urinals webinar (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:25 (five years ago) link
Actual answer for me is that Brexit just isn't that big of a deal. The problems this country is facing won't be sorted by going ahead or not with Brexit. People are dying from austerity, racism and nationalism and inequality have always been ever present and this is all an expression of problems that aren't going away.
Brexit presented as a point of national suicide/Barbarians at the gates is just not my angle. The work to dismantle this stuff is ongoing in whatever way we can, with bigger problems on the way.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:31 (five years ago) link
I think ShariVari nailed it upthread with "the idea that it doesn’t make much difference because things can’t get meaningfully worse is as wildly optimistic as the most starry-eyed FBPE-er."
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:33 (five years ago) link
Basically: This poll is bad and wrong. Please feel shame for posting it.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:34 (five years ago) link
the only hope sustaining the most vulnerable in our society is to have an austerity-reversing budget rejected by the EU
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:38 (five years ago) link
Oh things may get far, far worse but being a member of the EU or not won't have anything to do with it. It's a side-issue.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:40 (five years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:14 (twenty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
<3
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:44 (five years ago) link
greece can tbh tho eat my ass
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:45 (five years ago) link
If it was a side issue then the people most invested in making things worse wouldn't be so single-minded in their pursuit of Brexit.
The fantasy of the benign cuddly EU is as annoying as any of the poll options but given the UK is outside the Eurozone and with its own central bank the EU would have no authority to do this afaik.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:48 (five years ago) link
that's my understanding too, it's part of the UK's long-running balancing act on the edge of the EU, but you'd think from all the noise that it's a shame we're not deeply embedded in the european project
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:53 (five years ago) link
their austerity policy is what will tear the EU apart in the end.
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 11:59 (five years ago) link
I won't lie and say there isn't a touch of glee in the prospect of ye/we getting back in but shackled to the Euro*
*it superseded the drachma, the pound sterling can get it.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:00 (five years ago) link
Yeah the Eurozone deficit rules that came into force around 2011 or so were part of a bundle of legislation that Cameron opposed for other reasons. There were a lot of idiots who jumped to its defence under the rationale that if Cameron opposed it then it must have been good. In reality it was the economic effect of Mogadon at best and actively harmful and destructive at worst.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:01 (five years ago) link
what irks is not so much the idea that the EU is benign so much as the idea that it represents a stable and sustainable alternative to the chaos of brexit. the european project has always been deliberately engineered to be unsustainable; jean monnet's approach was to create a series of provisional agreements and institutions that would require further action down the road. get your foot in the door and we'll work the details out later is not so far from 'let's do it and be legends'
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:03 (five years ago) link
Never settle for anything less than absolute perfection.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:08 (five years ago) link
No results found for "jean monnet still gleaming".
― imago, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:17 (five years ago) link
the charge is not imperfection but a deliberate/necessary dishonesty and lack of clarity in the way it has developed & will develop. cf. the ongoing european constitutional shitshow
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:18 (five years ago) link
I thought dismissing ppl who have strong rational dislikes/criticisms of the EU/The Clintons as narcissists or Utopian dreamers was more of an American approach to political discussion, pom.
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:29 (five years ago) link
Except Britain already has special status and is to an extent insulated from the worst aspects of that - eg the need to brutalise its own citizens in order to preserve an unworkable currency union, rather than just for shits and giggles as our government prefers. We're quite likely to apply to rejoin at some point in the future on almost certainly inferior terms.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:30 (five years ago) link
the special status was never going to last
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:36 (five years ago) link
ive never been able to parse legitimate concerns from yknow 'legitimate concerns' but i wasnt built for modern life tbf
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 12:55 (five years ago) link
I come from a country wrecked by would-be communist ideology, a country that has almost always benefitted from modelling itself after the West. It is currently ruled by the same cartoonishly incompetent party in all but name and by the Orthodox Church, which is an extension of Russian colonialism in all but name. It is a complete and utter disaster that serves to further cement an age-old culture of petty theft and corruption so forgive me for not seeing the EU as the chief culprit here. That being said, you're obviously entitled to your British perspective (and I don't meant this sarcastically).
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:00 (five years ago) link
(Forgive the redundancies.)
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:02 (five years ago) link
I don’t think the argument is that it’ll ‘stain Britain’s pure democracy’ as much as Britain’s democracy is old and creaky and it might not survive a broken hip.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:02 (five years ago) link
xxp chief culprit wrt what?
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:04 (five years ago) link
The current state of Europe as whole.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:05 (five years ago) link
That's so vague as to be meaningless, no?
I don't think the EU is the main culprit in the rise of far-right nationalism in Europe. I do think it's the main culprit for a disastrous austerity policy that has some pretty huge damage to much of Southern Europe. I mean, by definition!
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:15 (five years ago) link
I don't know about Greece and Italy, but much of the EU money we receive in Romania gets embezzled by ex-'communist' businessmen who have successfully curbed the judiciary struggle against corruption by painting the National Anticorruption Directorate as Soros/EU tools. Hungary and Poland are worse still, as far as I can tell. Is the EU to blame?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:23 (five years ago) link
Putting pressure on governments to cut government spending is not a sensible way to fight corruption.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:25 (five years ago) link
my argument is that the nature of the relationship between the EU & britainis uncertain, in flux and seemingly chaotic not just bc of current British incoherence and incompetence but also and more fundamentally bc the EU is provisional and unsustainable and constantly evolving in obscure and undemocratic ways.
this uncertainty around the EU makes it's increasingly aggressive economic programme alarming but it also makes it the only real vessel of hope I can see for britain politically, and the best chance at making lasting fundamental changes to what is probably the longest enduring extant political system itw and perhaps even ending its domination by what must be the most successful political party of all time. you don't need to be optimistic abt the EU to think it's preferable to westminster.
― ogmor, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:44 (five years ago) link
you don't need to be optimistic abt the EU to think it's preferable to westminster
does not apply if you support "the most successful political party of all time" of course, the reasons for which are surely part of the issue and hence part of the headwind non-supporters currently face
― mark s, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 13:51 (five years ago) link
wow this turned int
― Danton Lok (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 14:42 (five years ago) link
Damn phone. Meant to offer condolences to darragh on this thread turning into an actual conversation
― Danton Lok (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 14:49 (five years ago) link
i have a rep for aha peevishness but rly im v easygoing
mentions of 32 counties, none, obv
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 14:59 (five years ago) link
Only playing :)
This whole topic is more civil when we let each other think half baked feelings out loud instead of demanding some kind of lol orthodox realism
― Danton Lok (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 15:14 (five years ago) link
yeah
its a v interesting behemoth when removed from actual daily politics
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 15:26 (five years ago) link
See pomenitul is off on his Zizek routine again.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 15:52 (five years ago) link
Don't worry, the Maoist militias will soon emerge from the maquis and all shall be well again.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 16:02 (five years ago) link
otmor
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 16:20 (five years ago) link
The '08 crash was an opportunity for Osborne and his class to enact austerity and I see Brexit as a continuation of that.
It doesn't change the overall picture where people need to own all of the wealth they create. Being in the EU or out of it is neither here nor there.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 20:38 (five years ago) link
HUNGARY: we elected a fascist despotITALY: yeah we elected some of those tooTHE EU: Hmm. This is a major challenge. Perhaps we need a new consensus on migration. We b--ITALY: we have a budget deficit of 3%THE EU: HOW FUCKING DARE YOU. YOU ARE RISKING THE WHOLE EUROPEAN PR— ▀▀▀▀▀▀ (@immolations) November 21, 2018
― calzino, Thursday, 22 November 2018 08:55 (five years ago) link
By that logic the overall picture hasn't really changed in 40 years (or 100 years lol). I think that might be a little too much perspective for people who have experienced an obvious negative material change in their lives over that time, not to mention the people who are about to experience another one.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 November 2018 10:21 (five years ago) link
Or more than 100 years, since modern capitalism really.
The material change is experienced whether we are in or out of the EU. Yes if its a no deal its a disaster but that's the set-up of the system. No deal today, or something else tomorrow.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 22 November 2018 10:28 (five years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Saturday, 24 November 2018 00:01 (five years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Sunday, 25 November 2018 00:01 (five years ago) link
essentially narrator otm
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Sunday, 25 November 2018 00:10 (five years ago) link
35 votes prob also wins a reref iirc
― old yeller-at-clouds (darraghmac), Sunday, 25 November 2018 00:11 (five years ago) link
Well it's done now
― Mama Weer All Tankee Now (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 25 November 2018 00:33 (five years ago) link
the spread of votes here suggests that an actual resolutin may be diff*executed*
― provisional ilx (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2019 15:22 (four years ago) link
like tbh i was happy enough with those options at the time and tk knows i dont as a rule like to overestimate any electorate nor system of representatives but fuck me even i never considered "bored of discussing it now" as the winning ticket
as usual, time has revealed me to be just another naif cloaked in protective crank casing eh
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 00:09 (four years ago) link
it'd be a shame to have spent two years talking about brexit and then not brexit, right
― rob, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 01:17 (eleven months ago) bookmarkflaglink
this guy otoh, this guy knows whats up
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 00:10 (four years ago) link
German "punk" bands being denied entry to the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/13/german-band-may-have-been-refused-uk-entry-because-they-have-day-jobs
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 April 2023 21:03 (one year ago) link