Post a controversial music opinion

lol

The two characters in the lyrics of "Two Sisters" (Sybilla and Priscilla) were inspired by Ray Davies and his brother, Dave Davies. Ray was more introverted (and was the only one of the two married) while Dave was a party animal who was very outgoing. This clash of personalities was often the cause of many band in-fights, which would come out in their songs (ex. "Dandy", which is often thought to be about Dave).

Ran ‘round the house with her curlers on

I can well imagine Dave doing that tbf.

If we're talking pre-Muswell Hillbillies, then I would have went for 'Who'll Be the Next in Line?' or 'Come On Now' long before 'Two Sisters' ...

'Run for Your Life' is the obvious Lennon/McCartney example, but there's also 'Another Girl', 'You Can't Do That' etc.

The female harmonies of The Pursuit of Happiness are as good, if not better than, Fleetwood Mac's harmonies.

Since Moe does their lead vocals, referring more to the match of Kris & Leslie together, vs Stevie and Christine as lead vocals.

Wait, we're comparing TPOH's backing vocals to Fleetwood Mac's lead vocals?? And finding the latter wanting?

Always a pleasure to pull out "Beautiful White" anyway.

More comparing Lindsey on lead, with Stevie and Christine harmonizing. I've just been stuck on how pure Kris and Leslie sound, and how they elevate the band.

"Two Sisters" is a pretty gender-demeaning song.

― timellison

worth keeping in mind that the davies brothers had six older sisters, at least one of whom led a fairly wild life and died when they ray and dave were still young

"lola" sounds better when the raincoats do it

Ramsey Lewis's 1970s albums are AT LEAST as good as Herbie Hancock's work from the same era, and in the latter half of the decade, they're better.

As good as the Mwandishi albums?

What's Ramsey Lewis' equivalent of Sextant, I want to hear that

Lewis never did anything as weird as Mwandishi, but his albums from Golden Hits (seriously funked-out re-recordings of his 1960s hits) through Solar Wind, Sun Goddess, and Don't It Feel Good are as good as anything by the Headhunters (slightly more mainstream-oriented, of course), and Salongo, Tequila Mockingbird, Love Notes and Legacy are easily the equal of, or better than, Man-Child, Secrets, Sunlight, Directstep or Feets Don't Fail Me Now.

"All About That Bass" is good

Me Too is a proper earworm too.

Queen > The Beatles

the best ramsey lewis record is "mother nature's son"

it's probably the best collection of beatles covers i've ever heard outside of mixtapes i've made for myself

forget the '70s, just dig this funky weirdness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwsbVWeN6-M

^ thanks for sharing, this is great

Troye Sivan is a better guitarist than Jimmy Page.

― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 7, 2018

there is nothing wrong with comparing female artists to other female artists; we should instead be asking why we never compare male artists to women, and how it never seems noteworthy when a male artist is compared to dozens of men

"Two Sisters" is a pretty gender-demeaning song.

I find this conclusion to be bizarre tbh

same

i don't know what y'all are doing in those grimes and 1975 threads but it's probably not worth the effort

the best ramsey lewis record is "mother nature's son"

― budo jeru

i'll one-contrup that: there's one good record in "the white album", and it's ramsey lewis's "mother nature's son"

Charlie Watts' best playing is on the last few Stones albums.

Oh my goodness, Ramsey's version of the White Album is pretty schmaltzy. It's like he heard "Goodnight" and said, "Yes, but every song."

"Two Sisters" is a pretty gender-demeaning song.

I find this conclusion to be bizarre tbh

― Οὖτις, Friday, November 30, 2018 2:26 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

same

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, November 30, 2018 2:48 PM (four days ago)

It chooses its subject matter. It chooses to put the woman in the house. It chooses to mock her running around THE HOUSE after her epiphany.

does it also put the lotion in the basket?

I think the song speaks to the reality of women's roles and options at the time, and ultimately in a very empathetic way

I agree there's some empathy there but think it's cartoonish and...yeah, gender-demeaning.

What would you say was the point of mocking her at the end of the song?

I don't find the "so she ran round the house with her curlers on" inherently mocking, in the context of the song its an observation of her being liberated from feelings of jealousy and self-consciousness - she's not giving a fuck and that feels good to her

Looking at it again, I think she's actually mocked throughout the song. Her attempt to break away is framed in terms of the dishes, her women's weekly magazines...

point me to the line that spells out that mockery, that says "isn't this woman silly" or whatever, I don't think it's in there

I have explained myself enough. It chooses its subject matter. It situates the woman in the house with her dreary life. And then her epiphany is, yay, look at her running around the house with her curlers on. It seems to me that nothing could really be clearer.

but what makes that a mocking portrait as opposed to a realistic one? Part of the problem here is that Davies is a great enough songwriter that he doesn't clumsily spell out any particular POV, he just presents the details and observes, but you seem to conclude that the very observations themselves are mocking, that talking about the prosaic life of a 60s UK housewife is somehow inherently disdainful.

and taken in the context of his larger oeuvre, with its conservative leanings and pinings for tradition, it seems weird to assume that Ray's sympathies lie with the "wayward lass" as opposed to the hapless housewife, oppressed by her stultifying gender role. what conclusion in the song would have been non-mocking, in your opinion? that she run away from home, abandon her family, and become a hare krishna?

it seems weird to assume that Ray's sympathies lie with the "wayward lass" as opposed to the hapless housewife

I agree that it would seem weird and I was not doing that.

I don't find the "so she ran round the house with her curlers on" inherently mocking, in the context of the song its an observation of her being liberated from feelings of jealousy and self-consciousness - she's not giving a fuck and that feels good to her

This is how I hear it, too (fwiw)

"Jukebox Music" has always been more insulting to me as a woman who loves music. The "little lady" who takes the lyrics all the songs she loves literally gets the real condescending treatment in that one. And it still doesn't really anger me, just makes me think that Ray is definitely a man of his times.

ray is absolutely not mocking the protagonist for wearing curlers or reading women's weekly magazines! any more than he was mocking the idea of a village green preservation society. seriously, no songwriter of that era would be less likely to mock somebody for living a quiet and unadventurous life than ray davies.

what conclusion in the song would have been non-mocking, in your opinion?

The conclusion is fine. The children are what brings her back; that's actually nice. It's the portrayal I see as demeaning and somewhat sarcastic. Davies saw himself as a social critic.

ray is absolutely not...

"Absolutely not" - the final word, then?

and here i thought you had the final word with "i have explained myself enough."

Love you guys anyway

Also not a fan of "clutch empty milk bottles to their hearts" btw

I have a controversial music question...

I haven't listened, and I'm not qualified to really judge either way, but would Lil Peep be rated as highly right now if he hadn't died?