Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

Eh, ultimately, I think he cared more about music than any of that. Maybe he'd be programming with Max/MSP and doing TED talks on Varese idk.

Oh god yeah Napster/streaming would have drove him nuts

That one I could maybe see.

he probably would've done a "Macarena" parody in like...2004

All of you otm. He’d also be prime material for a WTF sit down with Marc Maron

he probably would've done a "Macarena" parody in like...2004

― frogbs

look he wasn't "shitty weird al yankovic", his being old and out of touch manifested in other ways. he'd probably be making fun of, like, jerry garcia's od (timeline works out: made fun of hendrix's death in 1984, elvis's death in 1988). that's another thing: he loved to make fun of people for dying, and as far as i can tell, nobody ever died as a result of the macarena.

but of course most of his "satire" in 2004 would likely be taken up with songs attacking george w. bush and islam in roughly equal measure.

he probably would have had his own porn site.

lol just thinking about him releasing an album called "Shiek Yerbouti" in 1979

TED talks on Varese

<3

Zappa in New York is being blown out to a 5CD set in March.

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/zappa_ny3600.jpg

Limited edition 5CD set in an embossed tin box

CD 1 – The Original 1977 vinyl mix
1 Titties & Beer 5:01
2 I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth 3:31
3 Big Leg Emma 2:17
4 Sofa 3:16
5 Manx Needs Women 1:34
6 The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1 4:06
7 Black Page #2 5:42
8 Honey, Don’t You Want A Man Like Me? 4:16
9 The Illinois Enema Bandit 12:41
10 The Purple Lagoon 17:12

CD 2 – Bonus Concert Performances – Part One
1 “The Most Important Musical Event Of 1976”
2 Peaches En Regalia
3 The Torture Never Stops
4 Black Page #2
5 Punky’s Whips intro
6 Punky’s Whips
7 I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth
8 Honey, Don’t You Want A Man Like Me?
9 The Illinois Enema Bandit
10 “Two For The Price Of One”
11 Penis Dimension
12 Montana

CD 3 – Bonus Concert Performances – Part Two
1 America Drinks 4:52
2 “Irate Phone Calls” 1:37
3 Sofa #2 3:04
4 “The Moment You’ve All Been Waiting For” :58
5 I’m The Slime 5:38
6 Pound For A Brown 4:50
7 Terry’s Solo 2:47
8 The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1 3:53
9 Big Leg Emma 2:19
10 “Jazz Buffs and Buff-etts” 1:51
11 The Purple Lagoon 17:00
12 Find Her Finer 5:22
13 The Origin Of Manx 1:48
14 Manx Needs Women 1:37
15 Chrissy Puked Twice 6:40
16 Cruisin’ For Burgers 9:56

CD 4 – Bonus Concert Performances – Part Three
1 The Purple Lagoon/Any Kind Of Pain 4:25
2 “The Greatest New Undiscovered Group In America” 2:18
3 Black Napkins 28:33
4 Dinah-Moe Humm 6:16
5 Finale 4:40

CD 5 – Bonus Vault Content
1 The Black Page #2 (Piano Version) 3:16
2 I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth (Alternate Version) 3:55
3 Chrissy Puked Twice
4 Cruisin’ For Burgers (1977 Mix) 9:08
5 Black Napkins (c)1976 10:56
6 Punky’s Whips (Unused Version) 10:55
7 The Black Page #1 (Piano Version) . 2:13

There's also a 3LP version with a much shorter track listing:

Side A
1. Titties N Beer
2. I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth
3. Big Leg Emma

Side B
1. Sofa
2. Manx Needs Women
3. The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1
4. Black Page #2

Side C
1. Honey, Dont You Want A Man Like Me?
2. The Illinois Enema Bandit

Side D
1. The Purple Lagoon (Side B)

Side E
1. Black Napkins
2. Cruisin For Burgers (1977 Mix)

Side F
1. The Black Page #2 (Piano Version)
2. I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth (Alt. Version)
3. Punkys Whips (Unused Version)
4. The Black Page #1 (Piano Version)

What's the deal with Orchestral Favorites?

I recently found a CD I barely remember owning or playing. Coincidentally there seems to be an expanded reissue in the works.

Was it from a concert or not? Some kind of contractual obligation thing? Anyway, glad I dug it out of that box.

Another early attempt he made at getting his "orchestral" music recorded with a pickup orchestra (really mostly an expanded version of the Grand Wazoo big band). It's OK, and it's nice to hear Emil Richards playing Zappa's stuff, but it's still probably the weakest of his "orchestral" works. It was another one that came out of the material intended for Läther (learned how to type umlauts on a US keyboard this week)

is that the same as the Revised Music for a Low Budget Symphony Orchestra -Live at Royce Hall 75

I believe so, yeah.

Anyone who hasn't heard the original Music for Low Budget Symphony Orchestra on Jean-Luc Ponty's album of Zappa compositions should do, it's nice!

Thanks rushomancy et al. Just the kind of context I was hoping for.

I think this was partly opaque to me because the inlay on the (1991) CD says "Recorded at Royce Hall, LA, September 1975" but also, "originally released in LP format, May, 1974" (impressive!), while the artwork is dated 1979.

My friend and I improvised a Zappa song the other day. It was this big, heavy pentatonic scale riff, then after a few runs through the riff he leaned over to his keyboard and dooped out a crazy cartoon-random mallet percussion part while I intoned in some ironic narrator voice. "Meanwhile, back stage, the group was engaged in sexual proclivities of a sort that would make you blush..." And then back to the riff. It was called, iirc, "Dwarf Athlete."

I think this was partly opaque to me because the inlay on the (1991) CD says "Recorded at Royce Hall, LA, September 1975" but also, "originally released in LP format, May, 1974" (impressive!), while the artwork is dated 1979.

― Invisible (Noel Emits)

The 1974 date is a typo.

My friend and I improvised a Zappa song the other day.

lol @ Josh I can hear it in my head

Is that Zappa in NY album considered a classic or something to get a 5 CD treatment? I listened a bit and really dug the brass on "Titties & Beer" and the moody angular vibe throughout.

"Titties and Beer" not widely considered a classic, no. Also, there's "The Illinois Enema Bandit", which is hands down the vilest piece of shit Zappa ever wrote, and there's some pretty fierce competition.

Really don't dig Zappa, but if I recall correctly I had a copy of this LP, which might be the only place to get, or for the long time was the only place to get, "The Black Page?'

I still get more pissed off about "Jumbo Go Away"

Is that Zappa in NY album considered a classic or something to get a 5 CD treatment?

Well they just had lots of unreleased tapes. Anyway the market for such boxes isn't that big so they're limited editions that sell out quickly and get deleted. Both the Roxy Performances and Live in NYC Deluxe boxes are now deleted. The good thing is that there's an official Zappa channel on YouTube where you can stream both (and much more).

There's also a sneak peak of the new release: Revised Music For Low-Budget Symphony Orchestra (Live At Royce Hall, 9/18/1975)

I was under the impression we were getting a Hot Rats box this year

Zappa in New York box is great

It was my most listened to Zappa back when I, well, listened to Zappa.

The expanded Orchestral Favorites is a lot of fun. The orchestra sounds under-rehearsed on a lot of it, as was usually the case with FZ and orchestras and chamber groups until Ensemble Modern, but game to give anything a try.

The expanded Orchestral Favorites is a lot of fun. The orchestra sounds under-rehearsed on a lot of it, as was usually the case with FZ and orchestras and chamber groups until Ensemble Modern, but game to give anything a try.

I am glad they released this. Only recently I found out some of the 2012 remasters (and vault releases) are now deleted...and I can't find them anywhere now. Would have loved to hear the remaster of "Studio Tan".

https://store.zappa.com/hot-rats/the-hot-rats-sessions-box-set-preorder.html

This looks great, but 125 clams for 6 discs and a book is maybe a bit wtf.

not a Zappa obsessive by any means but this looks cool indeed

If I was gonna keep only one Zappa album (and I'd really only be keeping three or four, anyway), Hot Rats would be it, but honestly the actual contents don't seem all that exciting. Endless take after take after take of "Peaches en Regalia"? No additional versions of "The Gumbo Variations"? Plus, it seems like the original LP mixes are nowhere to be found, which is weird. Mmm, I don't know.

If I was gonna keep only one Zappa album (and I'd really only be keeping three or four, anyway), Hot Rats would be it, but honestly the actual contents don't seem all that exciting. Endless take after take after take of "Peaches en Regalia"? No additional versions of "The Gumbo Variations"? Plus, it seems like the original LP mixes are nowhere to be found, which is weird. Mmm, I don't know.

There was an announcement of the contents of this box put up accidently by the (third-party) reseller of Zappa products on zappa.com with an annotated track list. It was taken off quickly but was reposted on the forum on zappa.com. I read there's a 32-minute take of "Gumbo Variations", retitled as "Big Legs". They included the digital remix from 1987 as the 2012 cd version uses the original vinyl mix. And you can get that very cheaply. (Strangely, "Sharleena" from "The Lost Episodes" is not part of the box).

This teaser was posted too. Just a different mix it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HP5i4dxZP4

Well, Zappa's catalog is administered through Universal so this will go up on streaming services. All the other recent boxes have been on Spotify etc., so I'll check it out there. $125 is out of my price range.

This seems like it'll be a fun listen. Those "Hot Rats" ads are done by David Ossman and they're very cute.

The Lumpy Money and Meat Light boxes are fantastic in places, particularly the former. The original orchestral cues from Lumpy Gravy are a revelation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ief_Jcl0Pac

Hot Rats Sessions box now out and streaming.

Diving in now, starting with the 32-minute "Gumbo Variations" mentioned up above, which is indeed called "Big Legs" here.

Really interesting already in listening to FZ getting Ron Selico to loosen up, have fun, play lots more fills, and Selico approaching and finally nailing the drum intro on "Peaches."

not a huge Zappa fan, but I'm loving all these early takes of "Peaches" and the way you can hear the final version coming together

Enjoying this greatly, he really had to do a lot of work on Peaches to make it sound so tight.

an engrossing listen, as i figured it would be. the jams on the july 30 session are such fire. i guess i know why "sharleena" is absent from this - it was part of a later set of sessions for a never-completed "hot rats ii" album - this is the lineup with aynsley dunbar on drums that did some pickup live gigs around feb-march 1970. what went wrong there? the widely-circulated gig from the olympic is goddamn great, but then there was the mothers "reunion" and then flo and eddie showed up and don harris was in with harvey mandel and the pure food and drug act, which, you know, is some great shit that carries on the spirit of the jams, but it's a shame the hot rats thing fell apart like that because one gets the sense there were some real interesting paths zappa's career could've taken and as talented as volman and kaylan are, instead it was just endless songs about fucking groupies...

so what's the archie shepp recording of "shadow of your smile" zappa mentions as inspiring the title? live at donaueschingen?

Did he say he bought the Shepp song as a single? Must relisten.

I wrote about the box. Didn't love it as much as some of y'all, but got to dive into my feelings about Zappa more broadly.

Nice write-up... The paragraph about the Fun House box is funny.

for the record after listening to the whole thing i wound up keeping 25 tracks totalling more than 2 1/2 hours, which is a pretty good hit to miss ratio for a box like this as far as i'm concerned!

one of my favorite Zappa tunes ("Oh No") came up on shuffle the other day and I was pretty struck by the gulf between how brilliant the music was and how bad the lyrics are. and I don't mean bad in the usual way Zappa's lyrics are, he's actually trying to be pointed and biting here but it just comes off like "oh, you believe in LOVE? well guess what...you're stupid!". actually could be a direct quote. then I started to think about how many Zappa songs have legitimately good lyrics and I couldn't really come up with many, particularly post-Mothers

idk, i'm not sure it's that much worse than "give him a flower" by the crazy world of arthur brown

"well guess what...you're stupid!" pretty much sums up the gist of every Zappa song, including the instrumentals.

This is my go-to for 'Oh No' these days, most of the rest of the cues are fab too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ief_Jcl0Pac