i don't understand how monuments is an interesting conceptual exercise but it seems what this record lacks for you is a conceptual framework
songwriting is p easily the strongest thing going here
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 18:24 (five years ago) link
also i prefer billy obtuse to direct 100000000000 percent of the time
it's been almost 20 years since he dragged a relatively meaningful and resonant album out of his personal life (machina, which isn't exactly great lyrically in itself) and everything since then has been whatever (zeitgeist's bush-era paranoia appears on, what, 2-3 songs total? i'd prefer that he sang about nothing on that record). all i care about is good songs at this point; this record has several good songs
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 18:34 (five years ago) link
(i guess ogilala is a pretty solid "personal" record for billy but there are multiple reasons that album feels unprecedented in his catalog)
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 18:36 (five years ago) link
Oceania is a breakup record + more stuff about his mom. That was only 6 years ago. and it's not the lack of conceptual framework, Ogilala didn't have that either, I'm not into the songwriting here. that's the most important thing to me too, and Silvery is the only one that's stuck with me.
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:03 (five years ago) link
Oceania is a breakup record + more stuff about his mom
i know! i didn't say machina was the last time he tried to drag a meaningful and resonant album out of his personal life
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 19:09 (five years ago) link
i don't understand how monuments is an interesting conceptual exercise
it's a better meta idea than Machina imo: Billy goes OK, you think SP was like this, I'll make a record that acts as an homage to that fictional band or idea of a band that you think we were. which results in the emptiest lyrics of his career, recycled MCIS riffs, a purposely bland and faceless persona, shiny shiny pop rock production, and exaggeration everywhere. it's a taunting record - "Run2Me" sounds like a parody of their electronic songs. this isn't post-flop excuses, it's baked into the record. and besides all that, I do like the songs more: better riffs, tighter songwriting, simpler everything.
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
impossible for me to read "run2me" as anything but earnest, it's also not a very good song
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 19:13 (five years ago) link
xp ha fair enough... "Pale Horse" gets to me now, I think for all its faults Oceania was emotionally resonant and meaningful
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:13 (five years ago) link
Monuments is anything but earnest - compare Run2Me to The Spaniards (similar lyrical conceit) - the latter is so much more heartfelt and invested. on Monuments he continually just repeats these pop ciphers.
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
― flappy bird, Monday, November 19, 2018 12:13 PM (three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i guess i don't think oceania is entirely successful at communicating that feeling, and it's mostly bc the lyrics are really bland and i spend the whole record trying to ignore them (which is why i can't see monuments as a deliberately blank exercise, it just continues the trend)
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
i guess that sounds kinda contradictory but i think it's possible for something to be invasively bland
does billy even sing the word "lover" once on the new one? what a relief
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 19 November 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
there's no way he doesn't. I'll check. that would honestly blow my mind. yeah, that replaced the "dropped consonants" as his most annoying vocal/lyrical tic lately. ruins the chorus of Aeronaut tbh
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:22 (five years ago) link
Billy's lyrics have never been particularly strong, there was the occasional decent moment throughout the classic albums but he's always been much better at conveying feelings through the music than words.
so I'm really not noticing that Oh So Shiny has worse lyrics than anything post-breakup - maybe it does, but that's never been why I love this band, and when the music is pretty close to a return to form it's pretty easy to ignore for me
― ufo, Monday, 19 November 2018 23:57 (five years ago) link
No "lover", but "Seek and You Shall Destroy" has "brigantine" (which I only ever remember from a Stone Roses song) rhymed with "libertine" and "Elohim", which is very Billy but would be more interesting if the song were better.
― Sam Weller, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 09:11 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/JAftJqf.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/zXPxfFO.jpg
:O
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 02:57 (five years ago) link
oh yeah I noticed that right away. heavy Triumph of the Will vibes with the huge banner over the arena here for a month before they played
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 05:23 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/fj7YniC.jpg
― my guitar friend wants his money (morrisp), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 05:55 (five years ago) link
I can't believe I didn't vote for To Forgive in the poll
― flappy bird, Sunday, 25 November 2018 06:01 (five years ago) link
I've had a couple of listens to the new one and as much as I enjoy it, it feels like kinda a missed opportunity. It feels much more low key than the work of a "reformed" Pumpkins should. It's telling that even though Jimmy and Iha are on this, it mostly feels less like a throwback to 1991-2000 Pumpkins and more like a continuation of what's been put out under the Pumpkins name since Billy decided to resurrect it. I think Oceania was a far better collection of songs, and I'd even rank Monuments to an Elegy higher.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Monday, 26 November 2018 22:34 (five years ago) link
they played Dross tonight
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-smashing-pumpkins/2018/the-sylvee-madison-wi-7397229d.html
plus a lot of Shiny songs
oh and Heavy Metal Machine
Cool
― flappy bird, Thursday, 29 November 2018 06:30 (five years ago) link
'Heavy Metal Machine' was always one of my least favourite Pumpkins songs 1991-2000. Bit of a bitter swipe at Cobain in the lyrics, too ... ("If I were dead/would my records sell?")
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:13 (five years ago) link
https://www.guitarworld.com/news/billy-corgan-paint-color-actually-changes-the-sound-of-a-guitar
― plant a twee or die (morrisp), Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:43 (five years ago) link
I have to admit the Captain Marvel trailer perfectly captures 1995 pic.twitter.com/nfM92vLHa8— pixelated no longer too early for a christmas name (@pixelatedboat) December 4, 2018
― orifex, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 06:37 (five years ago) link
more like perfectly captures an ilx post from last week
― Sufjan Grafton, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 07:29 (five years ago) link
xpost
By that logic he should paint his scalp different colors between songs.
― Sam Weller, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 10:15 (five years ago) link
holy shit nick fury is flappy bird, it all makes sense now
― We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 10:45 (five years ago) link
Close but no
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 16:02 (five years ago) link
holy shit samuel l jackson is flappy bird
― We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 16:04 (five years ago) link
Warmer
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 16:37 (five years ago) link
Seriously it's obvious, Billy Corgan is the real Nick Fury.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 17:44 (five years ago) link
holy shit billy corgan is samuel l jackson
― We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 17:51 (five years ago) link
check out the big brain on bizarro.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 18:04 (five years ago) link
erasing eXcLaMaTiOn pOiNtS ilx
panda showtrees and balloons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLD0tFwNSk
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 05:52 (five years ago) link
Excruciating performance on Kimmel yesterday.
― Sam Weller, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 14:28 (five years ago) link
I heard, what song?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 15:52 (five years ago) link
They did "Silvery Sometimes" and "Knights of Malta." Billy without a guitar, shuffling around the stage like an early 2000s Ozzy Osbourne and looking like Marlon Brando in the Island of Dr Moreau. James took a solo and had some weird malfunction. I don't know. I like "Silvery" fine but it's not a show-stopper. Billy -- what can I say. I don't mind him dressing like a circus ringmaster in drag but I just...don't get it.
― Sam Weller, Thursday, 13 December 2018 09:04 (five years ago) link
billy regularly going without a guitar is pretty easily the worst thing about the current incarnation of the band, his stage presence without it is so weird
― ufo, Thursday, 13 December 2018 09:38 (five years ago) link
otm x2
― flappy bird, Thursday, 13 December 2018 17:42 (five years ago) link
"we're gonna make this ha-pun!"
what, Billy?
disappointment
― Sufjan Grafton, Thursday, 13 December 2018 18:28 (five years ago) link
he's disenchanted the romantics
― flappy bird, Thursday, 13 December 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
After hearing the new album a couple more times, this is increasingly becoming a "So long Billy and thanks for the memories" type of situation for me.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 13 December 2018 23:57 (five years ago) link
only 18 years late!
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 14 December 2018 06:37 (five years ago) link
Well, not really - the band were inactive for 7 of those years and Billy put out the actually really great Zwan album in that period.
There's been Oceania and to a lesser degree his solo record, but otherwise it's been a very frustrating decade to be a Pumpkins fan. He's put out a lot of music in the last 11 years that just doesn't cut it.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 14 December 2018 07:39 (five years ago) link
Maybe he's trying to compete with the overwhelming charisma of Jeff Schroeder.
― Sam Weller, Friday, 14 December 2018 11:33 (five years ago) link
Haaaaaaaaaaah!!
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 14 December 2018 12:19 (five years ago) link
Zwan reissue(!): https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/12/billy-corgan-nine-projects/
― underqualified backing vocalist (morrisp), Monday, 24 December 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
oh god the prospect of a new SP best-of is....not a good one, for many reasons. pls stick to the Machina and Zwan reissues billy
― resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 24 December 2018 17:18 (five years ago) link