Dynasty, s3: Canadian Politics 2018

rob otm. The asymmetry is staggering.

xps

the idea that ROC would prefer it if French died off is surely part of the emotional argument for separatism

I mean, I get how it works as a pretext but it seems like concern trolling if separatists are in fact using this as grounds for Quebec sovereignty. How are francophones in ROC helped if Quebec separates? When (and why) have separatists been invested in bilingualism or the state of French language services in other provinces of a country they don't want to be part of. Official national bilingualism was obviously the child of an arch-enemy of separatism.

The Journet editorial in La Presse is good btw and I agree with it.

Also, it's been consistently clear that the PCs don't gaf about fiscal efficiency, since they paid out large sums to cancel green energy contracts that were near completion.

It's not that separatism would help the cause of Canadian francophones in the ROC, it's more that exasperation at the general climate of indifference, even antagonism, can rouse a desire for a clean break. Like rob said, it's an emotional response (an understandable one, imho) to a sense that the French language and francophone culture ultimately don't matter in a Canadian context, despite Trudeau's claims to the contrary. Whether this actually strengthens la francophonie in North America is a different can of worms, of course. It's just that when you live in a country where you're constantly being told to 'stop whining' or even 'fuck your insignificant language', it can be hard to stick to reasonable discourse, especially since an inverse scenario in Quebec would be met with deafening cries of 'we knew they were racist all along' or the like.

Speaking of said hypothetical scenario, Jean-François Nadeau's suggestion made me laugh:

Imaginez un peu cette scène de pure fiction : une annonce oblique de François Legault, lancée dans l’arène publique pour faire éclater au grand jour la vacuité de nos pensées à l’égard de la minorité française au Canada. Quelque chose qui dirait à peu près ceci :

« Désormais, dans un souci de conserver la francophonie canadienne vivante — sans quoi ce pays ne sera plus qu’une vague banlieue de Cincinnati —, le gouvernement du Québec utilisera tous ses fonds destinés jusqu’ici aux services aux anglophones afin de financer les services aux francophones d’Ontario et, s’il le faut, d’ailleurs aussi. Le gouvernement québécois a bon espoir que la communauté anglophone du Québec comprendra cette nécessité économique pour contrer les injustices générées par le pire des conservatismes. Pour les plaintes, évidemment, prière de vous adresser directement au bureau du premier ministre Doug Ford. »

I could be wrong but I'm not really sure if budget cuts in Quebec would be met with deafening cries of racism in ROC, even ones that targeted anglophone services. As far as I can remember, widespread outrage about bigotry in Quebec has usually come in response to active government efforts to legislate regulations concerning the religious symbols or clothing people can wear in various situations or to actively regulate where English or other languages can be used or taught, which is different. There might be a case to be made that withholding public funding that was previously earmarked to support a minority language is equally harmful
or discriminatory but I do feel like it would be seen differently.

For the curious, a good high-level overview of recent Canadian right-wing fuckery courtesy of Luke Savage:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/18/toronto-doug-ford-reveals-canadian-rights-disdain-for-the-charter-of-rights

Depressing. The amount of people who casually accept that might makes right is higher than we like to think.

The Canadian "left" (such as it is) has never been prepared to handle this and it'll continue to get steamrolled until or unless it grows a fucking backbone. I'm not holding my breath.

[extended string of violent epithets redacted]

anyway they passed back-to-work legislation this morning

Going back to the ROC francophones' situation there's a rather significant segment of the separatist movement that made ignoring the pleas and concerns of the ROC francophone one of their core values. Some, not all, prominent Quebec intellectual separatists have made it clear that ROC francophones are none of their concern. Those minorities would be some sort of lost cause to be used as a warning for the situation of french in North America rather than an opportunity to promote the french language within the ROC. All in all, it is kind of staggering that over the last 5 decades so little has been done for those ROC Francophones, by both their home provinces AND Quebec. Now, just look at Legault doing fuck all to amend the situation, just like the PQ, just like the PLQ did nothing to really help those people. In some intellectual milieux, including the press, the debate of whether citizens of Quebec should call themselves French-Canadians or Quebecois have been reignited; to me that is just proof of very timid solidarity Quebecois have for the ROC francophones (and other francophones of North America).

I could be wrong but I'm not really sure if budget cuts in Quebec would be met with deafening cries of racism in ROC, even ones that targeted anglophone services

― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, November 19, 2018 5:44 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh boy it would. Quebec bashing has happened for much less (lol pastagate), thankfully.

Pastagate fits into this category, I think:

active government efforts to ... regulate where English or other languages can be used or taught

My suspicion is that English Canadians would regard a government doing something differently than a government not doing something.

Idk, though, I could be way off.

Sund4r, you may find this interesting: http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/58c7800e-dafc-46a7-8575-08bcf0feb591__7C___0.html

I don't think that contradicts my point; I still think pastagate is an apples and oranges comparison to this. (Also, a quick Google search does turn up plenty of coverage in the English Ontario press abouot francophone protests concerning the Ford govt's budget cuts and cancellation of the French university, although most of it is more recent than Nov 20 tbf.) However, I do agree with the writer that funding minority institutions is an important way to respect those communities.

I will admit, though, that I'm not totally convinced that building a French university in Toronto was the greatest idea to begin with. Based on the 2016 census, out of ≈5.9M Toronto residents, ≈65.5K (1.11%) speak French as a first language, less than the number whose first language is Arabic (85K), Tamil (110K), or Tagalog (136K), let alone Mandarin (227K), Cantonese (≈248K), or Punjabi (171K). I do think it would make a lot of sense to build a French university here in Ottawa, where over 30% of the city lists French as their mother tongue and I use French all the time - far more comparable to the example of Montreal. (NB that there are no English universities or hospitals in Quebec City.) Whatever would be hypothetically done would have to be co-ordinated with the bilingual University of Ottawa, though, which is currently doing a pretty good job of providing education and services in French.

And even then, idk if an all-French university would necessarily serve francophones better than a bilingual one or if it would just serve to divide people further. Imo, McGill and Concordia can foster weirdly insular anglophone enclaves. Maybe we should be looking to expand French-language services at Carleton instead?

Totally riffing in the last post

Inaugurating a French-language university in the heart of Toronto is a gesture that would carry tremendous symbolic weight and that would go a long way towards further mending the historically fraught (i.e. hierarchical) relationship between anglophones and francophones, which remains a barely concealed wound in French-speaking Canada. Anything less is bound to be perceived as a sign or indifference, even contempt. It's hard not to feel like the linguistic majority just doesn't get it, and I say this as a non-native francophone.

Imo, McGill and Concordia can foster weirdly insular anglophone enclaves.

This is a valid concern, but I think that a) if you design the university from the ground up with this problem in mind, you could take pains to avoid repeating it and b) I don't know Toronto very well, but my impression is that you couldn't get by off campus only knowing French, unlike English/Montreal.

Yeah, b) is true for the same reason that the idea seemed unconvincing to me in the first place.

I assume part of the point of locating it in Toronto is to bring new francophone residents to the city and create more French-language infrastructure, not just to serve francophone people presently there. Whether it would actually draw students is something I hope they've done empirical analysis on. We don't want a tremendous symbolic gesture that fails in the application.

Tbh I've seen zero details about what this was supposed to look like, including what size student body they were expecting. I don't think it's impossible to imagine a way this could have worked though.

idk if an all-French university would necessarily serve francophones better than a bilingual one

This is essentially my very idealistic take on Canadian language politics in general, especially if you include "English" and "anglophone" as well. The cognitive benefits of bilingualism are well established afaict, and unlike my American friends putting their kids on waiting lists for Mandarin-immersion kindergartens in Oregon, there's a cultural/social framework for making bilingualism work in Canada--provided you can ignore decades of politics lol. The impression I get from my partner's students (almost all of whom are francophones at an anglophone uni) is that there's an appetite for bilingualism among younger quebecois. Or at least among the art students...

There is an 'appetite for bilingualism', but it's a one-way street.

Imo, McGill and Concordia can foster weirdly insular anglophone enclaves.

― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, December 2, 2018 9:31 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Francophones outside of the anglomontrealia are as responsible for this enclave feeling. And to be fair, there is so many more francophones (from all over the world, not just Quebec) at McGill/Concordia than anglophones in french universities.

Agreed that a new francophone Ontarian university need not be in Toronto of all places available.

just shaking my head while reading all of this tbh

like, the way this is being handled in canada is so wrong

https://globalnews.ca/news/4658188/fentanyl-china-canada-diplomatic-tensions/

“With the fentanyl crisis, and Vancouver being ground zero with imports from China paid with Bitcoin from unregulated exchanges, the U.S. government is concerned about Vancouver,” Duhaime said. “The fact that Vancouver has emerged as a safe haven for proceeds of crime is even more concerning.”

New thread: Open for Business: Canadian Politics 2019