Talking about Teargarden - I know that he's pretty much given up on it and junked an entire recorded albums worth of stuff in favour of his solo LP and the "reformed" Pumpkins, but it's such a shame that he hasn't seen it through to completion. As much as I didn't rate it on the whole, there were still a couple of things I liked on Monuments... and the pre-Oceania standalone singles.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 20:24 (five years ago) link
I'd love to hear what that canned Monuments... follow-up sounded like. A Zwan box would be the ultimate, though!
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 20:26 (five years ago) link
in 2009 (lol), he said Teargarden would be 44 songs documenting "the Fool's Journey," which I always thought he followed through on, perhaps unintentionally: if you add up Monuments, Oceania, and the singles, you get about 44 songs, and as far as documenting "the Fool's Journey" - well, Billy definitely followed through on that one.
One track from the scrapped Monuments followup (Day for Night) was used as an instrumental intro to some wrestling show. "Roustabout":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTG0gMkdNs
Also keep in mind that "Solara" is a Monuments/DFN holdover - he wrote about it quite a bit when he was doing that SP Nexus blog in 2014.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:08 (five years ago) link
wasn't "the spaniards" also supposed to be on day for night
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:13 (five years ago) link
if you add up Monuments, Oceania, and the singles, you get about 44 songs
34 by my count, so I guess Day for Night was supposed to be 10 tracks?
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:18 (five years ago) link
yes and yes
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:23 (five years ago) link
So, he was >< this close to finishing the thing and chose not to! Weird.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:29 (five years ago) link
Was there ever a tracklisting for Day for Night out there before the release got canned?
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 21:34 (five years ago) link
no, just a long list of songs and song fragments worked on. not sure if it's still up but you can find all of them on the Nexus blog. it was 30+ titles at least, but that's including Monuments stuff
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 22:21 (five years ago) link
"alienation" is really good
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 12 November 2018 16:32 (five years ago) link
in fact the last four songs are generally really inspired
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 12 November 2018 16:40 (five years ago) link
how does it flow as a record? three singles so far are all pretty different
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 November 2018 18:55 (five years ago) link
it doesn't really flow at all, it's definitely a rebranded ep
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 12 November 2018 19:07 (five years ago) link
right, so not even the jarring but thought through sequence of MCIS? just a collection of songs?
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 November 2018 19:10 (five years ago) link
yep
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 12 November 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
epic
https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/billycorgan.jpg
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 November 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
it says...something that Billy finally gave up on making a "proper album" or overarching experience *just* as he finally managed to wrangle most of the original lineup back together, but I'm not sure what
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 10:18 (five years ago) link
this is pretty easily billy's best album since Zwan at least, very pleasantly surprised by this. Knights of Malta and Solara are the only weak tracks and even then neither is that bad (at least relative to a lot of their post-reunionn material). i hope billy can keep things together long enough for vol. 2
― ufo, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 11:34 (five years ago) link
idk if i consider it as good as oceania (which i really turned around on after the sp poll) but it's encouraging for sure
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 13:11 (five years ago) link
Oceania still doesn't do much for me, it's not terrible but the melodies don't stick with me at all
― ufo, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 13:20 (five years ago) link
that's exactly how i felt about it for the longest time! not sure what changed
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 14:25 (five years ago) link
I should give it another try, it just washed over me blankly the half-dozen or so times I tried to give it my full attention
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 14:32 (five years ago) link
Can’t get over the drumming
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 16:12 (five years ago) link
yeah mike byrne is terrible, it's a hurdle
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 16:13 (five years ago) link
local modern rock station is playing the new one that is vaguely in the 1979 vein, it's pretty damn good!
― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 16:34 (five years ago) link
that's "silvery sometimes"! it's a great song
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 16:37 (five years ago) link
Nothing wrong with Mike Byrne's drumming on Oceania. He's no Jimmy Chamberlin, mind.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
counterpoint i'm a drummer and i know what i'm talking about
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:13 (five years ago) link
Yes, so are many people. Including myself.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:16 (five years ago) link
I personally don't understand how one can listen to the drum track on 'Panopticon' or the title track and reach the conclusion that he's a "horrible" drummer.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:18 (five years ago) link
cool
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:19 (five years ago) link
one nice thing about the new record is there are a few vocal moments that sound like old billy. it's the best his voice has sounded since zwan imo
solo record helped him sort through some of the vocal shit?
― for i, sock in enumerate (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:22 (five years ago) link
i assume! he did sound p good on that record too. i can't imagine rick rubin worked very hard on the new one but maybe he was able to coax this quality out of billy
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:24 (five years ago) link
I imagine Rick Rubin did his usual style of producing, which is drop in every couple of weeks and lie down on a couch for a couple of hours, make suggestions and go home.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:27 (five years ago) link
maybe the stripped down rubin shtick arrangements forced billy to care more about vocal performance. or just tea + astrology?
― for i, sock in enumerate (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:28 (five years ago) link
Billy's a Pisces, he picks up on those things.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:30 (five years ago) link
albini plays words with friends during sessions to keep his ears fresh. rubin naps on couches during sessions to keep his rubin fresh.
― for i, sock in enumerate (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:31 (five years ago) link
"panopticon" is a ridiculously good song i always forget, but byrne is overplaying through the whole thing and has no swing, it's just like a grid of tom hits
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:33 (five years ago) link
I don't feel that Byrne is playing any more or less than Chamberlin would have done on the same track. Indeed, I've often heard criticism of Chamberlin's own playing in general that goes along similar lines - that he's too flashy, that he overplays etc. Obviously, I disagree.
I agree with you that 'Panopticon' is a ridiculously good song - just stacks of guitars playing in harmony. Superb.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 18:45 (five years ago) link
panopticon starts like a good baroness song but loses me after the first verse
― for i, sock in enumerate (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link
Don't think I ever shared this here. Original mix of Inkless, officially released as a b-side to The Celestials single. Sounds so much better, vocals are right where they need to be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Yl2NKGejw
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 19:07 (five years ago) link
I'm falling more in love with panopticon as I relisten. But there's something about the construction of the song that does a bad job of hiding the weakest points. "There's a sun that shines IIIIiiiin" is just a really crap moment, and it feels like the whole song is designed to prop it up for my hatred.
― for i, sock in enumerate (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 19:23 (five years ago) link
post-Adore, Billy has had a bad habit of making his songs a minute / two minutes longer than they need to be. unnecessarily repeating choruses and vamping and adding an extra minute in between where the song feels like it should end and a guitar solo or something. Untitled is a good example: you could easily cut out the minute preceding the guitar solo and make the song much tighter.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 19:34 (five years ago) link
I disagree, I think 'Untitled' is fine as it is... same with a few (although not all, granted) MACHINA tracks.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 19:51 (five years ago) link
('Heavy Metal Machine' is well over five minutes too long, for one.)
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 19:52 (five years ago) link
that mix of "inkless" is great thank you for sharing it flappy. def one of the best oceania songs but the way the original mix prioritizes the guitars turns it into a kickass zwan song
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 20:00 (five years ago) link
it took a few listens but i really love "travels." it's, y'know, a post-machina sunny happy billy melody but something about it (maybe the arrangement of the guitars?) makes it feel like it'd fit in with the machina b-sides
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 20:15 (five years ago) link
I disagree, I think 'Untitled' is fine as it is... same with a few (although not all, granted) MACHINA tracks.― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, November 14, 2018 2:51 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, November 14, 2018 2:51 PM (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I like Untitled a lot, but I'm struggling to think of any pre-Machina songs (maybe some on Adore?) that are unnecessarily long. HMM is a good example but I'm thinking more of extra verses, vamping, and buildups. the songwriting in their imperial phase is really tight.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 20:33 (five years ago) link
New profile by Dan Hyman in The Ringer:
he Smashing Pumpkins have certainly disagreed about a great many things during their time, but one thing they all seem collectively agree on now is that they aren’t and never were friends. At least not in the traditional sense.“It was never like, ‘Hey, do you want to go to the baseball game?’” Chamberlin says with a laugh, calling from his home in the Chicago suburbs. “Sure, Billy and I would hang out on a sports level, but for the most part the band wasn’t really a social organization. The power of the music was partly predicated on the fact that the music was really the only reason we got together.”That’s not to say Corgan hadn’t always hoped it could be otherwise. “I think one of the great mistakes I made was asking my band to be my family when my family wasn’t my family,” the singer says. “And that put a pressure on them that just wasn’t realistic. Because you didn’t have the kind of friendship that you would assume would then translate to being in a room 12 hours a day and making a song. Somehow we were able to commit there in a way we couldn’t commit to, ‘Let’s go out to dinner.’ Me, having grown up with very messy family stuff … that was very painful for me. ’Cause I couldn’t help but take it as a slight.”
“It was never like, ‘Hey, do you want to go to the baseball game?’” Chamberlin says with a laugh, calling from his home in the Chicago suburbs. “Sure, Billy and I would hang out on a sports level, but for the most part the band wasn’t really a social organization. The power of the music was partly predicated on the fact that the music was really the only reason we got together.”
That’s not to say Corgan hadn’t always hoped it could be otherwise. “I think one of the great mistakes I made was asking my band to be my family when my family wasn’t my family,” the singer says. “And that put a pressure on them that just wasn’t realistic. Because you didn’t have the kind of friendship that you would assume would then translate to being in a room 12 hours a day and making a song. Somehow we were able to commit there in a way we couldn’t commit to, ‘Let’s go out to dinner.’ Me, having grown up with very messy family stuff … that was very painful for me. ’Cause I couldn’t help but take it as a slight.”
https://www.theringer.com/music/2018/11/15/18096080/smashing-pumpkins-reunion-billy-corgan-james-iha-jimmy-chamberlin-album-tour
― flappy bird, Thursday, 15 November 2018 18:29 (five years ago) link