vladimir guerrero.

projected to lead the league in batting average

canonlygetsohard.jpg

Are we in for twenty years of Thermo talking about his junk while Vlad Jr. leads the Jays to seven WS titles?

I am ready

is vlad jr. the best prospect ever?

spoiler: no -- that would probably be a-rod or griffey jr -- but he might be the best ~hitting~ prospect ever

so ready

Will be starting tomorrow. (Didn't get into today's game, first of the spring; Bichette was 1-2.)

the only reason a "smart" team would engage in this active disrespect is if they think they'll have destroyed free agency by the time they lose Guerrero's rights https://t.co/gKuWnom7g5

— Nathan Bernhardt (@jonbernhardt) February 27, 2019

The Jays have successfully convinced their fans that they're a small market team in a metropolis of six million people. Convincing the same fans that Vlad Jr isn't ready to play in the majors shouldn't be too difficult.

I don’t think anyone here buys either of those.

Supposedly Jays fans are all over Twitter screaming bloody murder about what Atkins said, but I asked someone at work today if he thought Guerrero took it personally or if he understood what was going on, and he thought the latter. Atkins could've been a little more artful, I suppose, but it's such an obvious smokescreen (which, admittedly, I wouldn't have understood myself a couple of years ago--I've never been that interested in the business side of the game). Would anyone really rather have a few extra weeks of Guerrero this year or a whole extra year of him down the road?

I'd rather cultivate a good relationship with my best player so maybe he'll re-sign

Does Toronto even want to sell tickets? C'mon...at this point you play him to get people in the seats.

F-ing baseball is so stupid, this type bs why they have this guy Mike Trout who is by the numbers the greatest hitter since Ted Williams or near Babe Ruth and really not many people even know who he is.

it's going to be a whole three weeks of waiting to see him, give or take? i'm sure they'll sell tickets just fine when they call him up, and then it will creep back down again because the team still isn't very good.

but also, how many batting titles has trout won? how many times leading the league in HRs? he has the curse of being very very good in all facets of the game, leading to an incredible overall value, while not being incredible in any single area that wow people who don't follow baseball closely

xp

honestly I find it hard to care too much about these situations, it's a few weeks

cultivating a good relationship doesn't even matter because vlad will ultimately go where the money is in free agency, and based on current trends that won't be toronto either way

a few weeks doesn't really matter, but dude is insulting everyone's intelligence -- literally everyone knows vlad mysteriously won't be ~ready~ until mid-april, at least don't bullshit us

see also manfred talking about salaries and desire to win. if you can't say something that isn't blatantly a lie, maybe just shut up

I agree his comments were not very bright.

cultivating a good relationship doesn't even matter because vlad will ultimately go where the money is in free agency

If you have a good relationship, maybe he'll accept an extension before he hits free agency.

it's a few weeks

He was ready opening day last year too.

yeah it's a not a few weeks, it's a full year.

eh. I’m not convinced about that it was clear at the time he was ready a full year ago

His minor league numbers are clear he was.

Nobody wants to hear that his defense is rated below average in the minors (if you slot him as DH you'd need to trade/dump Kendry who's due to earn $12M this year) and he had 2 lower body injuries last season.

I'm pretty sure he could have played last year and put together a rookie season at least the equal of Harper's. But you'd be losing him at what, 24 or 25?

i think he could have played and been fine, but yeah his defense needed work and bumping an 18yo up straight from high-A would have been *extremely* aggressive.

he earned a september call-up though (which he didn't get, of course) and the extra two weeks in the minors this april won't be what magically transforms him into a viable big-leaguer. especially when brandon drury is their top 3B

just play him for the love of god. this season is sure to blow again, give us something novel to be excited about

really hate to be the republican in this discussion but the team has to look out for its own interests, and that includes making sure he's ready (which is why bringing him up when he'd only proven himself against A-level pitching would have been too early) and making sure they retain control for an extra season (which is why bringing him up last year for meaningless games or starting him this year does not make sense). the issue is with the CBA; the team is just doing what it has to

^^^k3vin is a cop

no, that is true. but in the long run baseball as a whole would be better served by having its best players play. (i mean, pop doesn't care, but the nba will fine you if you rest your stars too much.) saying 'we're gonna play crappy players now so we can have better players in 2025' is straight-up saying that the team isn't really trying to win. as a fan, maybe i'll come back in 2025 and maybe i won't, but that's a pretty big turnoff, and it should worry the league more than saving money here and there. if baseball had an independent arbiter concerned about the overall health of the game, such an entity might try rearranging the incentives to reward competition a bit more.

(of course this sort of thing in particular is hard to gauge because there *are* legitimate reasons to leave players in the minors sometimes. )

I agree it’s a bad look for the game, I just don’t think that appealing to morality when trying to convince front offices to go against their own interests is something that is likely to work.

one appropriate thing might be to start the arb/free agency clock at signing rather than basing it on MLB playing time (presumably with different speeds for int'l signings/high schoolers/college players)

i mean i joke about the jays calling vlad up in mid april, but . . . they're not likely to catch the sox or yankees this season, so it might also be in their interests to stash him in the minors for several years. which as far as i know would be perfectly legal under the CBA, if an extremely bad look

I don't think it's appealing to morality more so than questioning if the long term health of the game is being challenged by the short term thinking of some owners.

"The team has to look out for its own interest" -- sure, under the current rules, it makes perfect sense to manipulate the service time of their best young players. They'd be stupid *not* to take advantage of that loophole. That's not the problem, the problem is that the loophole is BS and screws over both the players and the fans.

What is the league's rationale for letting guys come up June 1st without losing a year, but not April 1st?

the deal that the union negotiated with the league basically left this loophole open, where a certain amount of service time is required to burn a year of team control. not sure why the union agreed to it, but for the league it means happier owners who can play effective (sometimes REALLY effective) players for longer without paying them a lot. i guess it allows smaller market teams, if they're good with scouting, coaching and shrewd with contracts, to compete at a high level with a "bigger window" to sync up their quality youngsters. it's gotten completely insane now, though, where these arb-eligible/young guys are SO much cheaper than free agents, that there's no incentive to hire those free agents if you have a guy who's half as good and a tenth of the price.

as much as i don't want to miss any baseball, it's fucked up and i support the seemingly inevitable strike to get these folks paid

i'm not sure that answered your question lol i had too much coffee. it's all trash, let vlad play in toronto until there's a new montreal team for him to join

i have mixed feelings about that last detail.

ahhhh but look montreal isn't getting a team for like 20 years at this rate so you'll still get the best of vlad jr

Montreal can still hope for Vlad Jr Jr

Vlad Guerrero, Third of His Name, Breaker of ERAs, King of Baseball North

out 3 weeks with an oblique strain.

let's see, 3 weeks from march 10 is...

*checks calendar*

yep, late april

Rumored to have been called up to AAA Buffalo.

homer, double, four RBI in his first game with buffalo

i believe we have passed the point where the jays have gotten their extra year of control, so it could be any day now

Lot of talk on the radio tonight: how much notice will fans get, will the debut be a sell-out, is this the most anticipated debut of any Toronto athlete ever (any sport), etc. If there's enough notice, I might just try to buy a couple of cheap seats immediately and figure out who else can go later.

you live there, but i guess i'd be surprised if vlad's debut is a bigger deal than auston matthews'

Matthews' name came up, and the three hosts seemed to concur that this was bigger (in part because Matthews' four-goal debut was on the road).

ah, cool

I kind of agree with Matthews myself. I also thought of Vince Carter--not sure how long it for "Vinsanity" to take hold. I looked up his home debut: third game overall, 22 points, attendance ~15,000.

Something that made me laugh: Halladay's name came up, it was pointed out that he began with relatively little fanfare, and someone asked "Does anyone remember Halladay's debut?" Well, his first start was on the road, but in his first start in Toronto he came within one out of a no-hitter. So yeah, I think quite a few people remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqtzmTHHZlA

.500/.583/.900 through 12 AB in Buffalo. Probably ready...