Yeah, I remember learning that fact from Animal Man, maybe Chibnall did too?
― Tuomas, Thursday, 1 November 2018 06:24 (five years ago) link
I'd bet Animal Man's Grant Morrison learned it from this:https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD8No7yxIv1PTggX5lJPyJgwvhz1HhyBF0G_YSYwLfus3DLYJ4jA
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Thursday, 1 November 2018 08:26 (five years ago) link
this was only ok. as was the rosa parks episode which would have been better without the awful song. the historical innacuracies about Parks bugged me (it was an organized and planned event, etc...ok my kid went to a school named for Rosa Parks so I know this shit in and out, I guess I can forgive others for not following it slavishly) and yes, it did feel like quantum leap (which is a show I liked). Really hoping the stories improve soon; I like the cast, I like the pacing, I like Jodie Whitaker, but they all seem like B- stories so far.
― akm, Saturday, 3 November 2018 16:08 (five years ago) link
Actually becoming part of events to ensure things happen as history recorded it, good idea for a show that.
― nashwan, Saturday, 3 November 2018 16:52 (five years ago) link
which would have been better without the awful song
you mean Rise Up by Andra Day, the Black Lives Matter anthem? yeah terrible choice for a story about Rosa Parks. and on a show like Doctor Who, defined by an understated, restrained approach to pathos.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Saturday, 3 November 2018 17:21 (five years ago) link
Point: f. hazel
― GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Saturday, 3 November 2018 21:37 (five years ago) link
It's been getting better every episode! Until today. That was shit.
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 4 November 2018 22:14 (five years ago) link
The Pting and the need for it to be more of a thing.
― nashwan, Sunday, 4 November 2018 22:15 (five years ago) link
I must have missed it but the remaining doctor said there was an important thing about the man giving birth that everyone needed to know which she then didn't tell anybody as far as I heard. (My money was on him being the first man to give birth to a girl.)
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Sunday, 4 November 2018 22:57 (five years ago) link
it was an organized and planned event
I'd be interested in reading more about this, there was a discussion about it in my house after the episode, and everything I could find said it was her choice on the day that it happened on that day - but that it had happened before and would probably have happened soon with someone anyway.
I see that after seeing they can do delicate history delicately, they've doubled-down with the next episode's subject.
I am reasonably resigned to the fact that a generic Chibnall episode will be a bunch of setpieces hammered together along with some terrible "let me read out my character sheet" speeches, and tbh I'm alright because he and the actors get the crew right.
I think this even more than ever after the current episode - all of the actors were good and charming, but it read like Chibnall had literally written one draft - there are ways to dump info about anti-matter or Ryan's dad that make the later stuff make sense without demonstrating the world's worst time management.
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 4 November 2018 23:12 (five years ago) link
I though the actors were non-charming today, especially the pregnant guy and Jodie Whitaker, who walked around hunchbacked the entire episode for some reason. It felt like the most panto Doctor Who performance since Sylvester McCoy's first season. The dialogue was super-cringe too - this weird mix of quotidian smalltalk, sci-fi formality and fake chumminess - everyone sounds like the regrettably blokey head of your HR team.
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 4 November 2018 23:34 (five years ago) link
someone needs to explain to chibnall what a galaxy is.
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Monday, 5 November 2018 02:06 (five years ago) link
― Chuck_Tatum
nope, still loved it. chibnall pulls in every goddamn cliche in the book, and it's absolutely glorious. 45 minutes of a spaceship blowing up? yeah, absolutely. this episode was great in the same sense that "the edge of destruction" was great. i haven't loved the show this much since 2005. my favorite was the bit where the doctor took a minute out of the episode to explain anti-matter. watching this show is so much nonstop fun!
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Monday, 5 November 2018 02:24 (five years ago) link
Pting is Stitch from Lilo & Stitch in appearance, demeanor, ability, and reputation.
I thought the episode was fine. Chibnall is still weak on structure, but there were a lot of ideas in here and some of them worked, without any of them conflicting. Good enough.
― adam the (abanana), Monday, 5 November 2018 02:50 (five years ago) link
haven't made it to the credits yet but ginger preggo bloke looks like Chibnall
― Sing The Mighty Beat (sic), Monday, 5 November 2018 02:52 (five years ago) link
yeah, I dug this one, was better than the first two episodes no doubt
the incidental music continues to delight me
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 5 November 2018 02:53 (five years ago) link
also: next 4! episodes written by not Chibnall
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 5 November 2018 03:08 (five years ago) link
Chibnall is still weak on structure, but there were a lot of ideas in here and some of them worked, without any of them conflicting. Good enough.
― adam the (abanana)
i wouldn't even say he's necessarily bad on structure, it's just that his episodes clearly aren't finely constructed machines the way moffat's episodes are. i mean constructing plausible plots enacted by characters with internally consistent motivations is, i would say, a good thing, but blowing something up every couple minutes so i either don't notice or don't care that the fundamental basis of the episode makes no sense is just as fun (if not actually more fun). it's no less a high-wire act than moffat - with moffat, it's "how is he going to either resolve or plausibly fail to resolve this ridiculous puzzle box he's constructed", and with chibnall it's "how is he going to keep most of us from noticing and/or caring that his entire plot is gibberish?" he's great at this, and is getting better - "42" was one of my least favorite episodes of season 3, but i loved this iteration of it.
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Monday, 5 November 2018 05:14 (five years ago) link
i hated this ep with every fiber of my being Pilot’s Heart. PILOT’S HEART. http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/nawww.gif
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 5 November 2018 05:25 (five years ago) link
and that thing looked like an adipose + slitheen with teeth 👎🏻
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 5 November 2018 05:28 (five years ago) link
I though Pilot's Heart made a lot of sense as a colloquial name for Myocardial Awesomitis or whatever the technical term would be - in the style of Tennis Elbow or Nursemaid's, er, Elbow.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 5 November 2018 08:18 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLVSXiQeTDU
― i want donald duck to scream into my dick (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 5 November 2018 08:56 (five years ago) link
And it seems like this is the point where modern fandom goes binary, with people being called out as misogynist on twitter for saying this episode was less than brilliant.
I thought is was good enough as a filler nu-who episode. No worse than Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS, the Sontaran two-parter from the Tennant era, a Mark Gatiss episode or anything after their first appearance featuring River Song, Clara or the Weeping Bloody Angels. I've also realised I remember virtually nothing about the last series - it started off with the space girl in a puddle, then there was a Victorian ice fair with a monster underneath. There was something about a pyramid and Capaldi went blind after reading a book then... there was a Gatiss Ice Warrior Zulu thing and the Master/Cyberman finale (which I think the first part of which was great and the second half a dreadful mess iirc).
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Monday, 5 November 2018 09:56 (five years ago) link
I'm being slightly unfair to Gatiss, I think I liked the sleep monster one with Reece Shearsmith.
I am of course blotting out the Tennant episodes featuring 1an Lev1n3 and the Scribble Monster.
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Monday, 5 November 2018 10:02 (five years ago) link
My feeling is there has been a conscious effort to make it For Kids this series. Pretty sure the Pting (which I liked) will be back to munch something else in a more helpful way later on.
― suzy, Monday, 5 November 2018 10:25 (five years ago) link
the first 35 minutes of the 14n L3vine one are the best RTD episode everhaving watched Society (1989) for the first time tonight, I might rate some of the last ten minutes a little higher if I ever watch them again, too
― Sing The Mighty Beat (sic), Monday, 5 November 2018 10:28 (five years ago) link
It's those last 10 minutes though and ending on a joke about face-fucking a sentient paving slab is definitely Not For The Kids.
I always feel sorry for the Blue Peter winner, who had this great Katamari-esque idea and ended up with Peter Kaye in a fat(ter) suit.
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Monday, 5 November 2018 10:42 (five years ago) link
My feeling is there has been a conscious effort to make it For Kids this series.
Weirdly I feel it's less for actual kids, more like A Teenager's Intro To Basic Sci-Fi so far.
And although I agree the Pting will probably be back to save the Doctor in the finale somehow, there is a clear trend of them introducing a character or two every week you feel like we haven't seen the last of.
I really liked the dronebot guy even though he barely did anything, relieved he didn't turn out to be a cliched threat to the humans himself.
And again the set design/production aesthetics were really strong. Just a shame nothing else is still not on their level yet.
― nashwan, Monday, 5 November 2018 11:31 (five years ago) link
I'm not sure about the "it's for kids now" defence whenever the show gets dumb. But I'm glad it's toned down the grimness since the first episode (when you could hear the offscreen sound of a jaw being broken, twice!)
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 5 November 2018 11:34 (five years ago) link
I mean, I'm sure this happened at some point last night, but I can't find any at all - some people do seem to like it a lot more than me, granted.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 5 November 2018 12:37 (five years ago) link
If anything I thought there might be some ire over the binary nature of men giving birth to boys and women girls, according to the male human-looking character. Didn't see the value of that detail.
― nashwan, Monday, 5 November 2018 12:47 (five years ago) link
A lot of it seems confined to DMs with some people prefacing criticism with "don't @ me" but
do you hate doctor who for reasons other than 13 being a woman? don't be silly, of course you hate it for that sole reason, SEXIST— arbrax (@arbrax) November 4, 2018
is a mild open version
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Monday, 5 November 2018 12:53 (five years ago) link
Maybe it's just something 'everybody knows happens' when it actually doesn't? A lot of people seemingly with no axe to grind saying it does though, including one NuWho writer.
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Monday, 5 November 2018 12:59 (five years ago) link
I didn't like Ryan persuading the dad to keep the kid. That seemed like terrible, conservative advice
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 5 November 2018 13:06 (five years ago) link
Another big relief was that I feared the Pting might prefer the 'energy' of a newborn baby and the love for it over the bomb, and/or the love would be too strong and subdue the Pting permanently.
― nashwan, Monday, 5 November 2018 13:22 (five years ago) link
I loved it right after the Pting ate the exploded bomb and its expression and belly glowing red, like me after I eat an entire pizza, so happy and then... back into the cold vacuum of America
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 5 November 2018 14:44 (five years ago) link
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo)
definitely a shame (non-binary is where it's at), but i'm impressed that open fan war took this long - it was obvious to me at least that, chibnall being chibnall, and 2018 being 2018, fan war was inevitable. personally i'm less committed to fighting for chibnall's vision of who than i am to trying to understand why i _like_ it so damn much.
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Monday, 5 November 2018 15:15 (five years ago) link
i'm impressed that open fan war took this long
this is definitely the first time in history that dr who fans have ever said that other, unspecified dr who fans disagree with yet some other unspecified dr who fans about dr who
― Sing The Mighty Beat (sic), Monday, 5 November 2018 18:04 (five years ago) link
I'm not actually sure I agree with aldo which way that tweet faces tbh.
the character development is a big issue howeverand i miss murray gold ok— arbrax (@arbrax) November 4, 2018
I dunno, there are a lot of issues that the scenario brings up - is a single dad treated differently to a single mum? - is the speedy gestation part of plot cover to not mention abortion? - how would a race that requires a cesarean evolve? And I'm happy with Chris Chibnall not answering any of these, and making a show where Futurama's Nibbler terrorises the crew for an hour and then Ryan refuses to fistbump Graham.
Which is to say that I don't think it was intended to play like that.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 5 November 2018 18:47 (five years ago) link
and i miss murray gold ok
HERETIC
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 5 November 2018 19:06 (five years ago) link
i mean, this whole series has bored the absolute living shit out of me. it's the least fun i can remember having with doctor who, and two of the companions are (to me at least) completely dull and have no charisma whatsoever. but the doctor and the woman whose name i can't remember are easily my favourite things about the series.
― calamity gammon (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 5 November 2018 21:30 (five years ago) link
This was another okay episode, pretty much the same as the last one: some nice moods and character moments tied together with an uninspired but functional sci-fi plot. At least this week Chibnall managed to tie all the threads together instead of leaving the plot weirdly unresolved, as with the previous ep. It really feels this is as good as it gets with him. On the minus side, this was yet another story set on another galaxy where everyone looks like human... Except of the Pting, of course; I wonder if the whole special effects budget was used for it, so they couldn't even afford rubber foreheads for others. I really miss the robots and lizard people and blue men of the previous seasons, having everyone look the same as the protagonists makes it feel uninspired as science fiction.
― Tuomas, Monday, 5 November 2018 21:31 (five years ago) link
It seems fairly obvious that Jodie Whittaker is comfortably the best thing about this series and she deserves better than the boring scripts we've had up until now. She feels weirdly crowded out and unestablished as the Doctor though - I'm pretty sure that Ecclestone, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi all got way more alone time on screen, or at the very least the fact there was usually just one companion gave their character space to breathe.
― Matt DC, Monday, 5 November 2018 21:39 (five years ago) link
Yeah, and most of the time when the companion was talking, they were talking about the Doctor - I don't honestly miss that.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 5 November 2018 21:44 (five years ago) link
She reminds me of Su Pollard and I'm not alone in this thought.
― Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Monday, 5 November 2018 21:48 (five years ago) link
She feels weirdly crowded out and unestablished as the Doctor though - I'm pretty sure that Ecclestone, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi all got way more alone time on screen, or at the very least the fact there was usually just one companion gave their character space to breathe.
― Tuomas, Monday, 5 November 2018 22:00 (five years ago) link
On the minus side, this was yet another story set on another galaxy where everyone looks like human... Except of the Pting, of course; I wonder if the whole special effects budget was used for it, so they couldn't even afford rubber foreheads for others. I really miss the robots and lizard people and blue men of the previous seasons, having everyone look the same as the protagonists makes it feel uninspired as science fiction.
― Tuomas
"star trek" does foreheads, "doctor who" does tattoos
really if your standard for "inspired science fiction" is forehead prosthetics i don't know what to say
i do disagree with the idea that whittaker's doctor is somehow undefined. i was actually just thinking today about the difference between her doctor and her predecessors. today i'm struck between that scene between the doctor and astos, and how well-handled it was. it's not flashy, it's not showy, it's just really incredibly solid character development
because here is the moment in the show where a woman is taking orders from a man. that's a goddamn tough one. chibnall manages it - first, by not foregrounding her gender, and second, by making her act in a manner _consistent with her character_. why is the doctor tearing up the ship demanding to be taken back to kembel or wherever? i mean, that's ridiculous, right, yet another example of chibnall's inconsistent characterization? no, it's not in this case. she acts this way because that's who she is. she's extremely stubborn and extremely vindictive. she once spent something like six billion years punching a wall out of spite. (and somehow the show under chibnall is too "violent"...)
but she listens. astos is in the right, she's in the wrong, he knows what he's doing, and she acknowledges this, acknowledges it by herself without having to have a companion in the room to talk her down. she's behaving in a way that i have a hard time imagining any of her predecessors behaving, and chibnall does it without doing some creepy william marston shit. he's actually really very good!
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Tuesday, 6 November 2018 02:18 (five years ago) link
it does feel slightly unfair to Jodie Whittaker to stick her with three companions which is obviously going to dilute her screentime and presence. I could do without any two of them but not sure which two. Individually they're all interesting I just feel like they aren't getting enough time.
― akm, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 03:35 (five years ago) link
"star trek" does foreheads, "doctor who" does tattoosreally if your standard for "inspired science fiction" is forehead prosthetics i don't know what to say
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 06:38 (five years ago) link
"(Okay, the Time Lords are like that too, but I think the Grandfather Clause applies for them.)"
oooh, maybe Grandfather Clause is Doctor Who's real name! (It's not. It's "Doctor Who".)
"But all the people in Ghost Monument, and at least the pregnant guy here, maybe the medics too, are supposed to be a different species, so it's just lazy writing to make them look and act just like humans. Dude has baby sac that's said to have no nerves, yet he acts exactly like a human when he goes to labor?― Tuomas"
Really, I don't know what to tell you here. The aliens aren't convincingly alien because, to the best of our knowledge, there are no aliens. It's an impossible and arbitrary standard and one Chibnall's not even trying to meet. Every character on the show, including the ones that look like salt shakers, is necessarily basically human, and I can't fault Chibnall for not putting in a lot of effort to hide this fact.
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Tuesday, 6 November 2018 14:52 (five years ago) link