Greta Van Fleet

Good post, Josh. Yeah, my “defense” of Led Zep against plagiarism is along the same lines — let me know who they swiped the bridge of “Ten Years Gone” from, because I gotta hear those guys!

Also makes me wonder, though, if there been any truly great bands that aren’t equally as “singular” as Zep; or (to put it another way) which have been more successfully “imitated.”

Like, to take the example you mentioned, there have been bands which took elements of the Smiths’ sound, but did their own thing with it (e.g., the Sundays). Not a straight-up imitation.

Another (obvious) point is — you can’t “imitate” writing great songs.

Emil Amos (Holy Sons) recounts going into a Chapel Hill record store as a 12 year-old (and in the company of his mother) and nervously asking the clerk "Will there ever be a better band than Led Zeppelin?"

The clerk was Mac McCaughan, who gave it to him straight: "No."

I have not watched much in the way of early Zep live footage (so maybe it's an unfair comparison for a few years) but what strikes me about the costuming is how completely sexless the singer is - if you can't halfway mimic Robert Plant's cock outline, don't wear a vest with no shirt and leather pants.

NEW MUSIC

ON ILM

Xpost part of it is young Plant was just fuckin gorgeous too

if you can't halfway mimic Robert Plant's cock outline, don't wear a vest with no shirt and leather pants

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SnappyAlertJohndory-small.gif

Like, to take the example you mentioned, there have been bands which took elements of the Smiths’ sound, but did their own thing with it (e.g., the Sundays). Not a straight-up imitation.

Reminds me of an interview I heard with Steve Earle once, where he made a distinction between bands that imitated the Beatles and those that were clearly influenced by the Beatles but found their own voice. (Never mind the fact that everyone is influenced by the Beatles). He brought up Neil Finn as an example of a Beatles-esque songwriter that nonetheless rarely sounds like a rip-off.

Anyway, per Zep, I think a good rare example is Jeff Buckley, whose "Grace" is clearly informed by Zeppelin (to his reported chagrin) but whose voice (in every sense) was distinct enough that his/its impact was separate. No doubt because he had similarly disparate, eclectic influences. Genesis and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Leonard Cohen, say, along with the aforementioned Smiths and Zeppelin.

Iirc, Chuck wrote in Stairway to Hell something to the effect that Zeppelin IV deserves credit for inspiring Sonic Youth and Prince as much as blame for Whitesnake and Kingdom Come?

The only problem is they are not John Bonham.

Don Henley complained to Glyn Johns about his drum mix on an early Eagles album, "Why can't you mix it so it sounds like John Bonham?" Glyn replied, "Because you are not John Bonham."

I seem to recall him proudly mic'ing the drums on the first Television album a la Bonham, and when he passed out after drinking too much the band re-mic'ed them the way they wanted them to sound.

Wait, that was Andy:

The first day in the studio came in November 1976. We had a 2pm start. Andy was nowhere in sight. Finally, about 4.30pm, he came traipsing in. He said, “I came in yesterday, to see what the place was like, and… I can’t work here!” He started listing all the technical tools these old studios didn’t have. We tried to calm him down. Finally, grudgingly, Andy said, “Well, I did manage to set the drums up last night. Got a good sound. Wanna hear it?”

He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”

Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”

For the next few days, Andy would mutter, “Oh, right, so, this is some kind of New York thing. You want to sound bad like The Velvet Underground. You want to sound crap like The Stooges. I see…”

I was conflating that story with this one:

One day we came in and Andy was asleep in his chair snoring with a bottle of wine dangling from his left hand and several empty bottles on the floor. He had ordered a case of wine for himself and us—but he drank most of it while I drank some too. He had a burned out cigarette between the first two fingers of his right hand. We didn’t want to wake him so we asked Jim if we could tiptoe around him and record a song because we were eager to get started. That song was “Prove It.” When we felt we had a good take we came in and listened at low-volume so as not to wake up Andy. It felt good so we played it again a little louder, and then again even louder. Suddenly Andy snorted and woke up. As paranoid as he was about producing the record, he looked back and forth and forth and back and then asked, “Did I record this?” We all nodded yes and winked at Jim who told him, “Yes Andy, you recorded that—you don’t remember?” Andy's tension drained away and he proclaimed, “I am very good, aren’t I?”

http://loudwire.com/pitchfork-greta-van-fleet-review-album-rock-fans-respond/

“The rock community”

Counterpoint: anyone that would seriously defend this band probably will listen to and like anything, except rap, since that's not real music.

That's such an obvious strawman that I almost don't even want to reply, but I will seriously defend their right to exist as 19-21 year olds and to make efforts to do creative stuff.

They absolutely have a right to exist, duh. But they're such an unambitious low bar that to defend them is to defend pretty much anything. Nickelback, DMB, whatever. I mean, Greta On Fleek is not incompetent, but so what?

Idg why people think reposting some tweets makes for a news - or any other kind of - story. (Ans: because I clicked on the link)

"It’s funny you mention that because when I was a teenager I went through this phase where I said “If I really want to capture Zeppelin’s secret sauce I need to listen to what *they* listened to, and that got me into a bunch of folk and blues and R&B (to the extent I could discern the right things to listen to in the pre internet days,” and honestly that did make me both understand Zeppelin better and a better musician. But also the idea of using that to do nothing but recreate Zeppelin did come to seem very boring.

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive)"

i don't think it's strictly _necessary_ to be a 12 year old skiffle guitarist to sound like zep, but greta van fleet would probably sound better if their guitarist was playing skiffle at the age of 12. this is more an indictment of greta van fleet than a defense of skiffle.

Any excuse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQIWyosEeI

Idg why people think reposting some tweets makes for a news - or any other kind of - story.

Lol, of course I knew it was nonsense myself, but posted it in the spirit of some Saturday night “fun”

Xpost part of it is young Plant was just fuckin gorgeous too

― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, October 27, 2018 7:16 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is this a commonly held opinion? i don't really feel this way

The musicologist Susan Fast actually mentioned her youthful attraction to Plant in her (v good) book In the Houses of the Holy.

I don't think I'd complain if I were six foot whatever and looked like this:
http://www.ledzeppelin.com/sites/g/files/g2000006376/f/201807/rp-60-4.jpg

Good post btw, man alive.

I taped a lot of Howlin' Wolf off the radio and got Muddy Waters and Lightning Hopkins tapes for the same reason.

(I mean, "a lot" probably = one side of a C90. It seemed like a lot at the time.)

they're such an unambitious low bar

What a bunch of baloney. Have no idea what to attribute this to if it's not them being targeted because of their genre or the way they look or whatever. They're fairly ambitious for people of their age.

XXX was only 20

Lil Peep was only 21

The whole discussion about their age is kind of a non-starter. Like I grew up the 90s suburbs, which was like nearly 20 years removed from Led Zepplin and teens were still jamming Zep riffs, cf Wayne’s World “No Stairway” joke etc. It’s like the hands-down most basic “I like rock/I play guitar/I read Guitar World” kid music like 30 years running.

There’s probably ... SOMETHING ... that made this set of kids connect with an actual audience and I don’t see anyone trying to really pinpoint it. Maybe the kid just has a good voice?

I think Tim and I were trying to do that, a bit.

Like I grew up the 90s suburbs, which was like nearly 20 years removed from Led Zepplin and teens were still jamming Zep riffs, cf Wayne’s World “No Stairway” joke etc. It’s like the hands-down most basic “I like rock/I play guitar/I read Guitar World” kid music like 30 years running.

What does all of this have to do with whether or not age is relevant to this discussion?

XXX was only 20

― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, October 28, 2018 6:05 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think Greta Van Fleet should stay away from domestic violence

I think Greta Van Fleet should stay away from domestic violence

If you want your music to click with the teens of today (or critics in their late 30s desperate to stay relevant with the teens of today), pound on your girlfriend (especially if she's pregnant) and talk about suicide a lot.

The GVF album is debuting at #3 on the next Billboard chart, behind the A Star Is Born soundtrack and the Future/Juice WRLD album, and just ahead of the new Disturbed. Disturbed's five previous albums all debuted at #1, now they've dropped to #4. It's a new world.

I wish PFork had given them the 3.6 they deserve so we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

“Rock fans” are likely stanning for them simply to own the haters at this point.

I wish PFork had given them the 3.6 they deserve so we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

late to the party on this but that's some vintage pitchfork there, i love it

http://www.switchedonpop.com/97-greta-van-fleet/

this podcast episode has an interview with the Pitchfork writer, and then the hosts go through the GVF record and try to figure out which Zep songs are being aped.

haha this is awesome, I love how surgical they get with it

They're gonna be the musical guest on Saturday Night Live on January 19. Host is Rachel Brosnahan of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which if you haven't watched it, sucks dog ass.

TV Guide should hire Unperson for an ongoing newsfeed of programming notes, written in that trademark style!^^

I made it through maybe 5 seconds of the band on SNL (well, on SNL on Youtube), and the singer reminded me of fat '80s jumpsuit Ozzy.

Ha, just read some commentary from Alex Lifeson, which can be read both as complementary but also kind of backhanded. He basically says, at first I thought they sounded like Led Zeppelin, but they are young and they are good musicians and maybe they will develop into something as they come into their own style. He conceded, justifiably, that Rush started out that way too, so who knows.

I mostly thought about how the drummer’s gonna get tendonitis in his right elbow real soon if he keeps that stiff all-forearm approach. He’s also going to need back surgery in a few years if he stays hunched over like that (like what happened to Larry Mullen).

they are young and they are good musicians and maybe they will develop into something as they come into their own style

I can't even tell you how many jazz albums I hear where I can close my eyes and picture, for example, the saxophonist's record collection.

I liked when the singers voice broke. I mean, he mostly seemed really nervous, but still.

I watched 25 seconds of the performance and I am convinced that this band does not exists and is a mass hallucination.