WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

these 5.1 broadcasts always seem to have inaudible dialogue... center channel is always mixed too low when it's converted to stereo

I am sorta dreading next week's episode, Doctor Who sucks at America, and they have chosen an... advanced topic.

Ah, I see they've got Malorie Blackman to write it. That's reassuring, at least.

i don't know if it was the sound mix but we couldn't understand about 70% of the shouting in the spaceships at the beginning

lol what advanced topic is portended?

notes and comments on this episode

- Maybe I was dense but I didn't understand that there were on two ships until I rewatched the show. I think the shakycam was shaking my mind.
- It was surprisingly easy to split that ship apart.
- Enemy is a toymaker, a device that was lazy even in the 1960s. NAGL to use an asian actor dressed up as Fu Manchu, either.
- The Tardis appears once every "solar rotation". Nitpicks: 1. Solar refers specifically to Earth's sun. 2. The sun doesn't rotate, the planet does. 3. It is vague whether it is a rotation around the planet's axis (a day) or around its sun (a year). 4. It is convenient that the planet's day is around the same as Earth's.
- They call the game a "race" and then switch to talking about species -- not a great choice for clarity. Then they start calling it a rally for who knows why.
- They set up that Chekhov's lighter twice. But they say it lights with a "click of the finger", which doesn't make it clear that it's a snap that can be done from a distance. (and why does it.... but no)
- The cynical guy's sad story was a "Walker, Texas Ranger" clip used on Conan.
- Rather convenient that there's a robot deactivate button right where they get trapped.
- They are going all out with their generic predator species, huh. not an enemy i thought was notable enough to go back to.
- The Doctor was concerned about the dead planet because she "feels a duty to others who might be in trouble". But the planet looks long dead. Not the most pressing concern.
- They all stop to look at "scorch marks" on the wall which, uh, you already had the robots firing at you, why is that a surprise.
- Chibnall doesn't make every line matter, and I don't think that's a good fit for a show like Doctor Who. e.g. they are told that the water is poison, then there's a pointless scene where the doctor points the sonic at the water and says the water is poison. or when they are in a shooting range and it takes multiple sentences for the doctor to say it's a shooting range.
- The "do not travel by night" thing is returned to at the end, but a second later it doesn't matter. I don't know why they bothered.

Flesh eating water was such a cool idea that I presume it's going to be important later. Otherwise why bother?

Apart from anything else I loved the first shot of the Doc in this, seeing her from Yaz's pov effectively. Lots of nice touches, even just showing an alien planet's varying terrain for once. Pretty lacklustre storywise once again though.

Nu Doc confirmed as a Remoaner ("Better Together")

lol that was my immediate thought as well.

flesh eating water was a cool idea. which they then explored by showing a picture of normal looking water and sailing over it.

I was a bit disappointed she found her Tardis already, I was expecting this series to be a single episodic adventure which would've been cool. Enjoyed it generally, lots of little quibbles but it was atmospheric and fun.

Here is the only video I can find of the Walker clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsbNoUHwXWs

And here's the next lines.

(Nicholas jumps from the ladder and falls to the floor, seriously hurting himself)

Ranger Roberta 'Bobbie' Hunt: (shocked) Oh, my God! Are you nuts?

Salvatore Matacio: (grabs and restrains Bobbie, as Laura Justin; furious) You will not interfere with me teaching my son how to be a man. That is something you know nothing about! Huh?

Ranger Roberta 'Bobbie' Hunt: Yes.

(Nicholas is moaning, writhing, and crying in pain)

Salvatore Matacio: (slightly kicks him) Hey. Don't ever trust anyone, Nicholas. Nobody. The sooner you learn that, the better off you'll be. Stop crying.

Weirdly, this episode’s director was former R1 DJ Mark Tonderai.

lol what advanced topic is portended?

They're gonna meet Rosa Parks and fool around in 1950s Montgomery. At least it will be fun to hear the Doctor say "Montgomery".

The Doctor was concerned about the dead planet because she "feels a duty to others who might be in trouble"

This bothered me because, well... there are no humanoids on the planet, but the second you meet a sentient lifeform (one that can talk to you!) your reaction is to... murder all of them with fire? Oh but you hate guns, so it's cool.

At least it will be fun to hear the Doctor say "Montgomery".

omg

I don't know whether sic has poisoned my thinking on this but after completely loving E1 and not caring at all about any of those plot point nitpicks because the overall production and mood was so great, I had the exact opposite reaction to this, tons of minor stuff bugged me and the general feeling was just stodgy and aimless and weak.

Not even the thing I found most annoying but - the "only idiots carry knives" line last week was great I thought, and then this week a guy being suffocated by a bit of angry cloth has his life saved by...someone carrying a knife. Like ffs chibnall you wrote both these yourself, make your mind up.

sic i absolutely loved reading that. where's your patreon??? :)

pay $1 a week for me to keep doing these, $2 a week for me not to. number of voters wins over dollar amount.

sic i absolutely loved reading that

agree! he rudely added a few days too late. take my dollar!

i would v much miss sic’s posts itt.

- Enemy is a toymaker, a device that was lazy even in the 1960s. NAGL to use an asian actor dressed up as Fu Manchu, either.

Did I miss something, or where was it established he's a toymaker? He says something about winning the first of the races they're participating in, but I didn't hear any mention of toys. Also, I don't know the actor's background, but he didn't look ethnically East Asian to me, and I didn't get any Fu Manchu vibes from him.

- Rather convenient that there's a robot deactivate button right where they get trapped.

This was done very quickly, but the impression I got was that the machine wasn't designed to produce EMP, the Doctor just rigged it to do that. Certainly an EMP would've been a rather odd thing to use if the device was designed to be an off-switch.

abanana is drawing uncomfortable similiarities between this story/character and one of the three most racist Dr Who stories ever, The Celestial Toymaker from 1966

That's right. Note that celestial meant Chinese. I originally wrote gamester/toymaker then thought the Star Trek ref wasn't needed.

The new actor was Art Malik and he was born in Pakistan.

abanana is drawing uncomfortable similiarities between this story/character and one of the three most racist Dr Who stories ever, The Celestial Toymaker from 1966

Yeah, I understood the reference, but I didn't really pick Fu Manchu vibes from him. I guess his shirt and vest were kinda vaguely "Oriental", but other than that his appearance and behaviour didn't really fit the stereotype. Maybe if he was the only Asian actor we've seen so far, it would've stand out more, but this and the previous episode have already featured a couple of other characters of South Asian roots (including one of the companions), so it really felt more like "we cast whoever was best for the role" than some kind of racist stereotyping.

- The "do not travel by night" thing is returned to at the end, but a second later it doesn't matter. I don't know why they bothered.

I thought the rule against traveling by night was because those weird living bandages were dormant when the sun was shining? It was never explained why that was the case, but it certainly mattered.

I guess his shirt and vest were kinda vaguely "Oriental"

this is what dat banana dough meant, the obvious orientalism (vs, say, Dorium in a similar story-role). possibly you're thinking instead of the absolute most racist Doctor Who story ever, from 1977, in expecting very direct Fu Manchu references.

Anyway, in general I thought this was an okay episode. Certainly an improvement over the previous one, because the ideas was less derivative, and others than the Doctor got some nice character moments here. But overall the plot was still a mess, the conclusion where the two aliens claim the price together should've been a heartwarming moment, but it came too abruptly. There simply wasn't enough space to develop those two properly because Chibnall wanted to flesh out the companions as well. Which was nice, but it makes me feel three new companions + a new Doctor is simply too much if they want to have interesting one-off characters as well.

And yeah, so much for the idea that this season would be all stand-alone stories, since the shadow of the Stenza and the cryptic "timeless child" references were obviously set-up for a larger plot. I don't mind it, and at this point I think most Who fans expect the series to have seasonal arcs besides the Monster of the Week, I'm just not convinced Chibnall can pull it off as well as Moffat (or even Davis) did at his best.

Art Malik was wearing a Shalwar Kameez a fairly typical outfit for an Indian or Pakistani to wear anywhere. My Indian neighbor wears one on a regular basis. FFS it’s a Pakistani man wearing, admittedly fancy, everyday clothes, which presumably will still be quite comfortable on a hot day in the future.

thanks, i'm learning stuff.

so much for the idea that this season would be all stand-alone stories

Stand alone stories and the season having a larger arc are not incompatible.

I thought the incongruity being noted was bcz this either is so wildly far in the future that the very existence of humans and earth cultures has been forgotten, or (as the dialogue suggests) is in the present but it’s just a coincidence or budgetary limitation that everybody in it looks like humans

Took me a while to work out the woman racer's accent. Briefly considered 'Isle of Man'.

Norn Iron surely, which is her own accent

So far in the future we can have TK Maxx bargain bin tracksuit bottoms (as worn by the racers), but not Shalwar Kameez?

It’s a pretty strong trope in sci-fi in Genral and doctor who in particular that aspects of current human physiology and culture persist if only to keep the props, costume and makeup department budgets under control.

Did appreciate staff Sargent morrow as one of the racers keeping Yorkshire’s end up.

FFS it’s a Pakistani man wearing, admittedly fancy, everyday clothes, which presumably will still be quite comfortable on a hot day in the future.

Oops, sorry, I didn't notice Sic already said the same. But the Stenza tech the Doctor used to transport them there was supposed to be a teleporter, there's no mention of it being a time machine. So presumably they're in the present day, then.

Anyway, in general I thought this was an okay episode. Certainly an improvement over the previous one, because the ideas was less derivative

― Tuomas

see, i thought the ideas were absolutely as derivative as the previous episode, but i guess chibnall did a better job of reframing it this time, because nobody here at least seems to have commented "oh, he's doing the hunger games". (which in itself wasn't a completely new idea either... i mean in some sense this all goes back to "the most dangerous game", doesn't it?)

and that was what impressed me most about the episode. in terms of cast, this was so light as to be basically a bottle episode, but in terms of scope it was anything but. also, after the last episode and its dramatic break with moffat's "nobody dies" ethos, chibnall here does an episode where... nobody dies. also, as someone who grew up on the old show, i really like the more relaxed pacing under chibnall. i understand compared to moffat's overstuffed episodes it might seem slow, but in fact chibnall does move along at quite a faster clip than the old series usually did. as a writer chibnall is unquestionably not as clever as moffat, but i'm very impressed with his understanding of how to use the medium.

I dunno if it's Hunger Games or The Most Dangerous Game really, since the contestants were expressly forbidden from harming each other. It's more of a Wacky Races with treasure hunt thrown in.

anyway, while i'm clearly not a nitpicker, i do think the knife thing bothers me. i wouldn't necessarily have a problem with chibnall last week telling us last week knives are bad and this week showing them to be good, except, well, this week chibnall told us guns are bad. i'm down with didactic storytelling, at least so long as i agree with the lessons, but it needs to be consistent!

It was also pretty hypocritical for the Doctor to chastise Ryan for using a gun on the non-sentient robots, when he herself later burned those talking bandages (which were implied to be sentient, since they were communicating with her) to crisp. I mean, of course it was understandable since she was doing it to protect herself and the others, but so was Ryan.

Not only that, but him shooting the robots took them out of action for a few seconds, which she said was bad, then she immediately EMP’d them which did exactly the same thing but for longer.

Just felt clumsy.

i mean i'm not sure it hurts anything, nothing can top the bizarre and tortured illogic of gun advocates.

From my notes toward a big aldoing: dyspraxia crew, does it work that Ryan would be able to run out into a battlefield, dodging fire, carrying a huge rifle, and while moving shoot with perfect accuracy against multiple combatants a) at all b) using skills developed from video game fine hand-eye coordination?

As someone with minor dyspraxia I've never particularly got into video games as they require too much hand-eye coordination. Also I went clay pigeon shooting on a stag do once and was the worse one there by a long way. So I'd say Ryan's competency in these circumstances is a stretch.

chibnall confused about key character and plot consistency seems to be a decent call so far.

From my notes toward a big aldoing: dyspraxia crew, does it work that Ryan would be able to run out into a battlefield, dodging fire, carrying a huge rifle, and while moving shoot with perfect accuracy against multiple combatants a) at all b) using skills developed from video game fine hand-eye coordination?

― My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic)

well, i mean, i don't want to speak for all dyspraxic people everywhere, but no, the idea of me being able to do that is totally ridiculous. i spent some time on the shooting range as a scout and i was absolutely terrible at it - in particular my perception of depth, distance, size, all shot to hell.

it’s odd. because a character like ryan going out and doing a call of duty run - it was funny, sweet (especially his running away) and a decent, sympathetic reference for a number of viewers. other episodes have always had this “bit of fun” stuff that doesn’t quite fit but which everyone is happy to let go.

but everyone here’s right, chibnall managed to make it sit v awkwardly to the wider audience. it doesn’t work.

i’m not going to slag off chibnall. experienced tv writer (i hated broadchurch) tackling a major character and franchise. good luck to him. (i don’t like it)

i thought it worked fine! people here are just thinking about it too hard.

how many times did someone say 'what EXACTLY did you just do?' 'what EXACTLY are you going to do?'
'Come to Daddy/Mummy' line so predictable it annoyed me