WHOCHURCH: The Chris Chibnall era

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Would Moffatt have ever slowed down for a eulogy scene the way they did here?

the bunker scene in Inversion was ten minutes including a five-minute monologue

Also: did production move permanently to Sheffield out of Wales?

did it move permanently to New York in 2012?

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Thursday, 11 October 2018 17:17 (five years ago) link

every single Dr Who story since 1985 has been filmed in Seville

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Thursday, 11 October 2018 17:18 (five years ago) link

I don't consider the eulogy scene particularly slow, though - my memory is that it's Very Shouty Capaldi.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 11 October 2018 17:34 (five years ago) link

They used special effects that they were capable of doing well in this episode. I especially liked how brief and blurry the shots of the spaghetti monster were.

adam the (abanana), Thursday, 11 October 2018 19:41 (five years ago) link

Avoiding cos he doesn't want to spoil anyone's fun 😊

so assuming everyone's seen it and settled with their enjoyment level, respec knucks to Chuck and f. hazel and Leeee, this episode made me go Full Aldo:

(teal deers, step on the space bar if you dgaf)

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Sunday, 14 October 2018 02:11 (five years ago) link

TEH WOMANG WHO FELL TO EARTH

So, this episode featured a promising debut performance by Jodie Whitaker, and did an efficient job of introducing the supporting cast, and setting up the series premise for brand-new viewers. The score was a vast distance from the overstatedness of 2005-2017’s composer Murray Gold, though the issues with sound being mixed for 5.1 and dialogue therefore being frequently drowned out persist (and my vote is still for 2010-2017 to be rescored by Paul Hartnoll).

But beyond that, it aggressively lived down to my expectations for Chris Chibnall, a man who has never shown the signs of having a single idea that would motivate a Doctor Who episode, and a steadfast refusal to actually follow through any of the points he sets up in his stories. This might be a tribute to Russell T. Davies, who at least wilfully thought that you were boring and dumb if you expected any of his careful details to link up. Davies was obviously correct in this, as his “bugger the facts, feel the emotions” approach made the series a bigger and broader success than it had ever been. But it made it maddening to have a writer who would set up clues, or establish stats and figures, in a way that made it seem the viewer ought to be rewarded for tracking them, if you were the viewer who took him at his implication.
Chibnall, in having a stunningly basic alien-invades-middle-sized-UK-city, gets-turned-away plot for his opener, will plausibly build a new audience of children and grandmas again. But let’s not forget that Steven Moffatt’s “make it clever enough for ten year olds and hope the adults can keep up” approach also made the series bigger globally than it had ever been. As well as bringing new and weird and interesting ideas, and recruiting other writers for the same, Moffatt kept changing his approach to the series year on year, whereas The Woman Who Fell To Earth feels just like an episode of the 2006 Chibnall-run Torchwood with different accents.

From the opening scenes, Chibnall sets out his MAKE NO SENSE agenda: Ryan and his family are up a hill that gently slopes away. He takes nine steps away from the sort-of-path, and is suddenly on top of a cliff. By the time he gets down to the valley to hunt for his bike, we see the tall trees rising indicating the depth, but no cliff edges anywhere around – yet his bike is suspended right above the nadir of the valley. If his dyspraxia mainly manifests in gross motor skills, is it really that much easier for him to pick up, carry and throw a bicycle than to ride it? (Genuine question!) Even if so, I think it hugely unlikely that he could throw it a distance of what must be at least 30 metres. Or that any human could.

This locality aside, the geography is overall very confusing, though it might make perfect sense to anyone familiar with the area. Hathersage, Grindleford and Sheffield are the only pointers given. By the time Bradley Walsh and Sharon Dee Clarke off of them Nomads are on the train, it’s pitch-black night. They had to leave Ryan on the clifftop because it was 20 minutes until their train left. So presumably they’re further away than, and get on earlier than, Hathersage – backed up by Grace saying “we’re between Hathersage and Grindleford,” not “we’ve only just left the station.” But Yasmin, complaining about her assignments from a police station in Sheffield [right?] gets sent out to this rural location. Ryan presumably calls the Sheffield police because they’re his local… so does that mean that he doesn’t live where he’s learning? His grandparents CAME OUT ON THE TRAIN with him to (checks train map) Bamford so that he would be far enough away from anyone he knows to make fun of him, but ditch him to walk his bike up a cliff from a valley and then all the way back to the country town station to take a multi-train trip back to the city? This is a wild mix of extreme care and total cuntery. I guess maybe he’s thrown enough 19-year-old tantrums that Graham’s “are you going to blame THIS on the dyspraxia, too?” frustration is actually rooted in something, and this is genuine characterisation that Chibnall is laying groundwork for, and not just bad-soap-level dialogue. I’ll start holding my breath not just yet, though.

Even if Ryan has a reason to call Sheffield cops, and the supervisor is bored of Yasmin’s complaints enough to send her out of jurisdiction on a wild pod chase just to teach her a lesson – surely sending an inexperience, teenaged, trainee female officer to answer what you believe to be a completely made up call by a young man, to a fucking valley half an hour away, out of her own jurisdiction with no backup, is liable to have the supervisor lose his job when she gets murdered by the nutcase who called in?

--

The first scene with the Doctor is nearly great – her challenging Yasmin on what she’s going to say when she reports the event is great, like a classic Doctor inviting a companion to come away with him, except here just encouraging her to be a nosy adventurer on her own terms – except that it opens with the Doctor seeing an alium for the first time, immediately grabbing a sparking cable and electrocuting it. My group was all shocked at this. The Doctor’s first response to an unknown species should not be to attempt to MURDER IT IMMEDIATELY, without even finding out if it can talk. [hey, wait – how is everyone later able to talk to Tim Shaw, when there’s no TARDIS around to translate? I’m sure Chibnall reasoned that part of his race’s hunter’s honour code requires them to learn the local language for every place that they go hunting on any planet, and we’re not going to see them chatting freely with any other aliens next week.) She follows with “that should buy us a few seconds,” but come the fuck on.

Did Capaldi take everything out of all his pockets before regenerating in Twice Upon A Time? I don’t actually give a shit about continuity like that, but since they keep referring to it and to him, I did keep wondering.

--

When Ryan touches the space testicle in the valley, it’s so cold that he snatches his hand away in pain. Yasmin touches it half an hour or more later, and it’s still that cold. We later learn that it’s the travel pod for Tim Shaw, who is permanently so cold he can freeze a human to death, so presumably it stays that cold until it releases him.

[wait a sec here – if he needs a pod to travel to Earth by himself, how is he able to teleport away with just a badge, while also carrying a human: especially when he can’t touch that human to transport them? You’d think the pod would be more necessary for the return voyage, not superfluous.]

So how the shit are Rahul and his white mate (aside here just to note huge approval of the majority-melanin lead speaking roles this episode) able to PICK THE WHOLE THING UP WITH BARE HANDS, having to press their whole arms and probably torsos and maybe faces against it, walk very slowly sideways out of the valley and up a hill to (presumably) a carpark, wrestle it into the back of the van, and get it out again at the other end (and arranging it carefully in the middle of the surveillance zone BEFORE TURNING THE LIGHTS ON), without so much as a blanket lining the van for insulation? Also, Rahul spent seven years figuring out when Tim Shaw’s teleport thing might be happening SOMEWHERE around Sheffield, but how the flying cockfarts did he deduce that it had actually manifested in that exact location in a valley half an hour away in the country?

--

I still haaaaaaate glowy energy regeneration being the same every time, but also don’t get what the deal was with the bit that floated away out of the napping Doctor. Maybe this will pay off later, and they need to go back to in a future episode because she left an important piece of her brain somewhere, somewhere in a flat in south Yorkshire.

--

I said “uh, it’s a Predator” at the first shot of the out-of-pod alien, not knowing a) how accurate I was, and b) how exactly Predator 2 it was. People praised the alien design but… it’s a guy in a leather outfit? Who just walks like a guy? He doesn’t appear to be body-acting at all, just walking slowly and stiffly because his costume is too tight. Apart from looking more like a rando motorcyclist than the motorcyclists from Mandy (which, I took it on my first viewing, were meant to initially suggest might be demons manifest on earth), Tim Shaw is plainly not mechanical, but sometimes, only-when-it’s-spookiest-to-do-so, makes hydraulic mechanical noises when he moves his arms. (And Gaiman wasn’t allowed to have silent, sneaky Cybermen!)

And the toothface makeup is DUUUUUUMB, just glistening wetly and… are all the teeth human? Even though he’s only ever hunted a human once before in his entire Competitive Hunting career? Shaw’s OWN TEETH are blue and pointy, so were two different ppl working on designing and building his face without ever speaking to each other? Did Chibnall not bother to include anything about other aliums in his script?

His makeup is just “human, but with a few wet ridges.” It’s ‘90s Star Trek level. (Definitely feels super-racist for Bradley Walsh to call him “that creature.”) And is he absorbing the teeth? How are they staying in his face? Does all his race keep teeth in their face as souvenirs, or is this supposed to mean that he’s a GIANT PSYCHO who everyone else hates and keeps setting spurious nigh-impossible tasks of hunting to get him off the planet and away from the government? This might be an interesting approach if we end up going to their planet later! Let’s see!

--

The team arriving at Rahul’s warehouse and crouching over his battered corpse is so tell-don’t-show that it feels like Big Finish. How can Doctor Who see a tooth has been taken? From the face we see on Tim later, he’s only taking molars (and maybe an incisor or two)? So how can she see just from looking at a guy lying on the ground? Tim would have had to tear Rahul’s cheek open, leaving his entire jaw and mandible exposed, for her to see this – and if so, then “what sort of creature kills someone then stops to pull out a tooth?” shouldn’t be remarkable. If it’s literally tearing his face open, then it’s already slowing down more than a little.

Doctor Who spends at least an hour, probably a few, building her new crystal steeldriver – given the time to find components, figure out the construction, but specially to SMELT AND WORK STEEL and let it set – and the exact second she’s done, Ryan runs back in having watched the computer video file that he’d clicked “play” on before she began. We then see the video, which runs for about 20 seconds. Did Ryan and Yas go through his file folders, find a couple of films he’d torrented, and watch them before suddenly thinking that finding the “thing” that’s “come back” after seven years to hunt humans might be worth following up on?

“Only idiots carry knives.” Firstly, way to sevateem-shame, and secondly, what if you’re the sort of person who often gets their friends captured and tied up and needs to rescue them?

Doctor’s miscalculation that the two aliens are fighting, like Sontarans and Rutans, is good. Show her as fallible, and throw a slight curveball or two to viewers.

--

Salad-tossing: that is some of the worst drunk-acting ever. But beyond that: is this a side salad in a kebab or munchie box, or is he fishing the bits out of a burger to throw away? The tomato being in slices, not wedges, suggests the latter, but maybe sliced is the custom in Sheffield. If not, why is there no burger? And given the weight of the Styrofoam container suggests there’s nothing in it but salad, if he’s finished the other stuff, why not just shut the lid and toss the box?

But then all of a sudden when Tim Shaw steps on the dropped box, it’s piled high with food – the shot’s too short to see, but looks like kebab meat piled on a very soggy half a burger bun, on top of another burger bun?

“Halloween’s next month, mate.” – Chibs was obv originally expecting more than a week or two gap between the series and the Christmas / NY special!

--

It’s not until she’s electrocuted it a SECOND time and said “overloaded its circuits” that Doctor Who scans the tentacle thingy and realises it’s half machine! She’s tried to kill it twice before doing any kind of scan to determine that this wouldn’t kill it.

The sound design and music mix drowning out dialogue becomes more troublesome when its drowning out the already-impossible-to-understand Tim Shaw while he’s delivering long exposition dumps supposedly explaining the entire premise of the episode. (I tried to go to the Thursday cinema screenings to get around this, by Moviepassing in to something else, but by 7:30 all screenings of the two films on MP for the day had been removed from the app.)

Tim Shaw: Well done. Your tiny mind must be burning with such… effort.
DW: ………..did he just say I’ve got a small mind?

Is her brain still regenerating, so she can’t figure this out (in which case he might be accurate and she oughtn’t be offended), or is this the standard of banter we can expect from Chibnall for the next three years? (I know which one my money’s on!)

If he needs “access granted” to retrieve the “selected trophy,” then is it really Marquess of Queensbury rules to murder so many other ppl? They keep pointing out how he’s cheating the rules of the hunt itself, but that there are so many rules makes one wonder if it’s really kosher to murder everybody else you encounter on the way to capturing the one you’ve been assigned.

“What’s it doing?”
“TOTAL… transference.”
Why the emphasis? Just “transferring its data” would make more sense – he’s not absorbing the tentacle thing’s life or energy or w/e – this feels like Chibnall thinking he’s being SUPER DOUBLE EXTRA SMART in setup, laying very careful info to point up something that in the end doesn’t actually make any sense.

Lol at Tim Shaw setting off his “short-range teleport” by throwing a smoke bomb at the ground and vanishing, but not even showing special effects of smoke or a camera trick of him vanishing, just having Doctor Who say what happened. Again, like a Big Finish.

Ugh at the font on Carl Limmybloke’s app looking like it says YOU ARE VALULD. Terrible design. But I guess he doesn’t think he deserves a top quality self-affirming app yet. Or maybe it starts displaying better UX once he starts exhibiting greater self-esteem! In which case, A+ world-building from the production there.

--

It must be WELL after midnight by now, and Carl is just starting his shift at the … crane exercise yard? Construction site? He was on a train heading to work before sunset, which in Sheffield in late September would be… 18:00ish? (Never mind that it had fallen completely dark by the time the train LEFT the station.) And was worried about getting there on time? Even if we call it midnight: So the job site is six hours walk from the train station? With presumably six hours walk back, and an eight-hour shift, Carl must do all his eating and shitting at work, and - even if we assume he lives at Hathersage, right next to the train station - be operating heavy machinery every day on less than three hours sleep, and never showering. No bloody wonder he thinks his colleagues don’t like him. Also take a bloody thermos up your giant climb into a shaking, juddering machine, not an open mug of coffee, dipshit. How is it still so full that he can sip from near the top? Maybe he’s pissing in it and drinking that. Again, no wonder he’s unpopular.

Fukkn loollllll at the security guard talking to his granddaughter on the phone before going to investigate the alien arrival. Was it his last week before retirement, too? At least he acknowledges mildly that it’s too late for her to be up and phoning, but if he so regularly avoids his job of being alert and watching for things that he keeps a tablet on a stand on his desk for video calls, it’s a wonder he’s made it to retirement.

Fair play to Carl for paying more attention than Grandead, but surely he shouldn’t be looking out of the cabin and peering at the tower beneath him, rather than actually watching what’s happening with the heavy and valuable payload that he’s shifting. Whatever that is. He really doesn’t seem to have anything hanging from the end of the crane, but I was looking at the people so might have just missed it.

I guess we’re supposed to take it as fortunate that the guard got killed, so that Bradley and I Wanna Give You Devotion could sneak or break into the facilities and steal hi-viz vests that aren’t the same hi-viz vests that the workers wear, and clipboards.

Why the fuck was the guy with a coordination disorder carrying a switched-on torch in one hand while climbing a super-tall ladder that is already very strongly illuminated with giant kliegs? Just so we can gasp when he drops it. Great work, Chibs.

I really couldn’t track at all what’s going on with Doctor Who suddenly being at the top of the crane but Yas and Ryan having to climb it slowly after her and then the tentacle creature is alive again (so, not TOTAL transference) and trying to bring the crane down just by… glowing near it? When seconds ago it was only /guarding/ the other crane by glowing near it? Can anyone explain what does actually happen here?

Does Ryan look up crane-operating instructions on Reddit? Ugh.

Lol that they have to super-slow down Carl’s “jump” across a gap of approx. 15 inches, fictional distance, to make it seem scary. Even more so that IRL it’s filmed on a studio and he’s not even jumping that far.
But then DW runs and jumps by kicking off the “floor” of that gantry arm, with the safety-rail-prow thing COMPLETELY VANISHING so that it doesn’t trip her up and send her plummeting to the ground (where she could regenerate again, into Peter Davison).

“What do you do with them, your human trophies?”
“They're held in stasis in our trophy chambers, on the cusp between life and death.
“Left to rot? How completely obscene.”

Are you listening? He just said they’re kept in stasis. That’s obscene enough in itself: bad form for The Doctor to make up almost the opposite of what the baddies do and then condemn them for it.

Telling off Carl for booting Tim Shaw off the gantry is fucking idiotic – she tried to electrocute another alien on sight, and on second sight, and she’s just Seventh Doctor-ed him into blowing himself up, and Carl quite reasonably might think it’s safer for Tim Shaw to BLOW UP IN MID-AIR than to EXPLODE WHILE DIRECTLY STRADDLING CARL.

Why do Walsh and Devotion bother to take time to remove their hi-viz before embarking on the electrocute-alien-to-death-for-the-THIRD-time mission?

Eulogy runs 1 minute 20. Are there really no Moffat episodes which spend 1 minute 20 on a single scene or on emotion?

--

It’s after the funeral that they tell the Doctor to change her clothes, and she says she has to be getting on. So she’s been sleeping on someone’s sofa for at least a week, without anyone taking he to a charity shop?? And she then hits them up for cash, when they’ve been housing and feeding her for eight days already? And she didn’t bother to start building a space teleporter at all during that week, and when she does, expects someone who is GRIEVING HIS GRANDMOTHER to help out now? The bloke who’s grieving his wife is also drawn into it, but let’s imagine he chose to come along to keep distracted.
Also, what a dick to hurl half the contents of the shop over the floor. (And why is Yasmin standing there, metres away, holding another armful of clothes?) Fair enough if they bring this up and bawl her out next week though: “we spent a bloody week smelling your dirty derps and feeding you, and then you almost killed us all in an airless void!”

Anyway the music is an improvement, the cast seem promising, an expanded team could work well and Chibnall seems happier with an ensemble cast, given Torchwood, Law & Order and Broadchurch. The very very very simple plot with no actual subtext or concept is probably a tactic to onboard new and casual viewers easily and I give it full marks for that. But I wish it was a simple plot where things actually flow together, and Chibnall regularly showed evidence of thinking about how all the details in his stories actually connect. I knew the next few years were unlikely to be to my taste, though, and if the ratings stay good and do well with women aged 5-35 and old folks, then hoorah for now, and roll on Jamie Mathieson in 2021.

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Sunday, 14 October 2018 02:17 (five years ago) link

"If his dyspraxia mainly manifests in gross motor skills, is it really that much easier for him to pick up, carry and throw a bicycle than to ride it? (Genuine question!)"

yeah, it is

dub pilates (rushomancy), Sunday, 14 October 2018 02:46 (five years ago) link

From the opening scenes, Chibnall sets out his MAKE NO SENSE agenda: Ryan and his family are up a hill that gently slopes away. He takes nine steps away from the sort-of-path, and is suddenly on top of a cliff. By the time he gets down to the valley to hunt for his bike, we see the tall trees rising indicating the depth, but no cliff edges anywhere around – yet his bike is suspended right above the nadir of the valley

That’s exactly what the gritstone edges around that part of Derbyshire are like rolling moors that drop away suddenly to a cliff, although lots of ways up and down and varying levels of difficulty. The view over Hathersage was clearly from Stannage edge but the only place you could chuck a bike and hit a tree is by the plantation and it would be a big chuck. ( went to an awesome rave there once)

If you really want woods at the bottom of your crag you need to be at froggat edge but you’d get on the train at gridleford. Of course you would end up in the dark and on the last train because you would have to stop off at the Chequers inn for a pint or two.

I think Chibnall is allowed some geographic license.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 14 October 2018 02:49 (five years ago) link

vashta
nerada

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 14 October 2018 03:04 (five years ago) link

yeah, it is

thanks! (I figured it probably was, as it's a less... controlled? fiddly? action, hence the aside, but that he couldn't actually lob it farther than any real human.) looking fwd to more opportunities for you and chap & al to identify w/ and comment as the season goes on

Of course you would end up in the dark and on the last train because you would have to stop off at the Chequers inn for a pint or two.

I think Chibnall is allowed some geographic license.

:) thanks too for the v detailed local knowledge!

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Sunday, 14 October 2018 03:21 (five years ago) link

sic, your review has vastly improved my opinion of this one episode of Doctor Who

El Tomboto, Sunday, 14 October 2018 03:22 (five years ago) link

it's, i don't know, a balance thing. carrying a bicycle would be a little unwieldy for me but i don't think i'd fall right over trying to carry it like i do trying to balance on a bicycle.

dub pilates (rushomancy), Sunday, 14 October 2018 03:26 (five years ago) link

lol tombot otm

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 14 October 2018 03:26 (five years ago) link

it's the flipside of seven years of ppl going "wtf? this made no sense and why would she say that" and me going "that was explained onscreen in x y & z"

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Sunday, 14 October 2018 03:33 (five years ago) link

sic i absolutely loved reading that. where's your patreon??? :)

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 14 October 2018 09:51 (five years ago) link

*cheers*
that 'left to rot?' bit had me fuming.
I'd not long ago watched a Black Mirror where being held between life and death was a plot point and it was explored so much better (ie at all)

kinder, Sunday, 14 October 2018 10:18 (five years ago) link

as an aside I love how Ed has been everywhere on the planet, almost like ILX's very own Doctor

kinder, Sunday, 14 October 2018 10:19 (five years ago) link

"Full Aldo"

:D

Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo), Sunday, 14 October 2018 11:13 (five years ago) link

while i'm kind of awe-inspired by sic's indefatigable forensic unstitching, i probably don't care about ~99% of it. however, the central contention that yer chibs struggles with ideas or that ability to locate the smallness/ingenuity of the doctor/humanity into much larger (dangerous, alien) structures. with RTD that was largeness was achieved through grandiosity, with Moff it was complexity (both grand failings as well), but that first episode felt linear and flat, unimaginative.

also used the line 'that thing must have killed him/her' TWICE. (the first gets the good rejoinder 'must it?').

What saved it was that Whittaker was fantastic, and well written as well. what i think she does well, better than any other nu-who doctor is contain the mania, diverts the grinning antic behaviour early into pragmatism, purpose or seriousness. they do force the usual manic behaviour = eccentricity on her but she manages it superbly. And after a bit of musing, I think the relationships between the new companions and the doctor are well done as well. the 'team' approach works i think.

Fizzles, Sunday, 14 October 2018 11:19 (five years ago) link

also sheffield and peaks fine by me even if it was a bit dark quite a lot of the time.

Fizzles, Sunday, 14 October 2018 11:20 (five years ago) link

My name is aldo and I endorse this message.

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Sunday, 14 October 2018 11:49 (five years ago) link

Wait what's this about teal deers?

nashwan, Sunday, 14 October 2018 12:53 (five years ago) link

~

kinder, Sunday, 14 October 2018 13:13 (five years ago) link

hey, who turned out the lights?

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 14 October 2018 15:17 (five years ago) link

I'd not long ago watched a Black Mirror where being held between life and death was a plot point and it was explored so much better (ie at all)

― kinder

i don't think i'd want doctor who to be black mirror!

dub pilates (rushomancy), Sunday, 14 October 2018 16:33 (five years ago) link

Wait what's this about teal deers?

tl; dr

My Gig: The Thin Beast (sic), Sunday, 14 October 2018 17:51 (five years ago) link

I thought that was better than the last one but still only OK. The strangly fabric was both cool and scary but the premise was a bit on the drab side and the whole thing could use more in the way of humour.

Real overreliance on manic expository dialogue as well.

Also, I hate Bradley Walsh.

Matt DC, Sunday, 14 October 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link

hey, who turned out the lights?

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 14 October 2018 22:10 (five years ago) link

Second episode. Puts Chibnall's disadvantages into focus quite a bit - OK, so from now on all of the dialogue will be the characters literally describing what is happening on screen - but I'm still sold on his advantages. The show is beautiful. It's incredibly well-photographed and gorgeous to look at, and he's confident enough to do exactly what you would expect. Yeah, there was a lot to love in the convoluted narrative unpredictability of Moffat, but I loved watching this show, even though I could have written you a summary of the episode after watching five minutes of it. The music is also great, though I suppose there are still issues with the 5.1 mix?

The one part that bothered me was the bit where the Doctor apparently actually believed she had stranded everyone on an alien planet to die. The Doctor should, of course, have moments of vulnerability and doubt, but she is an alien genius. She should not be stupider than me. Falling into despair because the TARDIS shows up two minutes later than she expected is out of character for her and unconvincing to any viewer who is even remotely genre savvy.

Still, I've forgiven the show worse, and I'll gladly forgive this. Next week Doctor Who will tell us about racism in America. Speaking of having forgiven worse, can I just say how glad I am that Mark Gatiss will _not_ be writing the episode?

dub pilates (rushomancy), Sunday, 14 October 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link

Difference between this and the Keys of Marinus: go!

Bimlo Horsewagon became Wheelbarrow Horseflesh (aldo), Sunday, 14 October 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link

though the plot of "the ghost monument" involves a deadly sea, chibnall has the narrative confidence to just make it look like a regular sea; "the sea of death" involves five minutes of screen time, some crappy fx shots and some foolishness with susan's shoes to laboriously establish what chibnall does with something like one line of dialogue.

dub pilates (rushomancy), Sunday, 14 October 2018 23:38 (five years ago) link

finding the tardis at last got me a little choked up 🤙

though once she got inside of it the reveal of the interior was strangely subdued and drawn out, so much so that my 7 y o whispers to me "it's a trap!"

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 15 October 2018 00:37 (five years ago) link

It’s definitely the most Chibnall TARDIS interior possible

El Tomboto, Monday, 15 October 2018 01:36 (five years ago) link

I thought the teethface makeup in E1 was a bit silly but I’m kinda stoked for the Stenza being the season’s villains.

El Tomboto, Monday, 15 October 2018 01:46 (five years ago) link

I found this only ok but still much better than the first one. Although if you make a big deal about the water microbes that dissolve people, you could at least... have a water microbe dissolve someone. And that’s two eps of “Doctor stuck in a sports game” so far.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 15 October 2018 04:03 (five years ago) link

hahaha, I also thought of the Keys of Marinus!

fun episode, I like the new theme tune and that the TARDIS chameleon circuit has chosen an action movie poster for its new form, but I don't think Pythagoras was the type of dude that would have hangovers.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 15 October 2018 04:08 (five years ago) link

Biscuits, my friends.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 15 October 2018 04:26 (five years ago) link

BTW, kinda curious question -- both Kate and I agreed that, at least over here, the sound mix of this episode in particular was...off? Like a lot of dialogue seemed buried in the mix, nnd not just for effect.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 15 October 2018 04:30 (five years ago) link

these 5.1 broadcasts always seem to have inaudible dialogue... center channel is always mixed too low when it's converted to stereo

I am sorta dreading next week's episode, Doctor Who sucks at America, and they have chosen an... advanced topic.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 15 October 2018 04:43 (five years ago) link

Ah, I see they've got Malorie Blackman to write it. That's reassuring, at least.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 15 October 2018 04:45 (five years ago) link

i don't know if it was the sound mix but we couldn't understand about 70% of the shouting in the spaceships at the beginning

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 15 October 2018 06:48 (five years ago) link

lol what advanced topic is portended?

All right! A new season! (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 15 October 2018 07:20 (five years ago) link

notes and comments on this episode

- Maybe I was dense but I didn't understand that there were on two ships until I rewatched the show. I think the shakycam was shaking my mind.
- It was surprisingly easy to split that ship apart.
- Enemy is a toymaker, a device that was lazy even in the 1960s. NAGL to use an asian actor dressed up as Fu Manchu, either.
- The Tardis appears once every "solar rotation". Nitpicks: 1. Solar refers specifically to Earth's sun. 2. The sun doesn't rotate, the planet does. 3. It is vague whether it is a rotation around the planet's axis (a day) or around its sun (a year). 4. It is convenient that the planet's day is around the same as Earth's.
- They call the game a "race" and then switch to talking about species -- not a great choice for clarity. Then they start calling it a rally for who knows why.
- They set up that Chekhov's lighter twice. But they say it lights with a "click of the finger", which doesn't make it clear that it's a snap that can be done from a distance. (and why does it.... but no)
- The cynical guy's sad story was a "Walker, Texas Ranger" clip used on Conan.
- Rather convenient that there's a robot deactivate button right where they get trapped.
- They are going all out with their generic predator species, huh. not an enemy i thought was notable enough to go back to.
- The Doctor was concerned about the dead planet because she "feels a duty to others who might be in trouble". But the planet looks long dead. Not the most pressing concern.
- They all stop to look at "scorch marks" on the wall which, uh, you already had the robots firing at you, why is that a surprise.
- Chibnall doesn't make every line matter, and I don't think that's a good fit for a show like Doctor Who. e.g. they are told that the water is poison, then there's a pointless scene where the doctor points the sonic at the water and says the water is poison. or when they are in a shooting range and it takes multiple sentences for the doctor to say it's a shooting range.
- The "do not travel by night" thing is returned to at the end, but a second later it doesn't matter. I don't know why they bothered.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 15 October 2018 07:35 (five years ago) link

Flesh eating water was such a cool idea that I presume it's going to be important later. Otherwise why bother?

Matt DC, Monday, 15 October 2018 07:52 (five years ago) link

Apart from anything else I loved the first shot of the Doc in this, seeing her from Yaz's pov effectively. Lots of nice touches, even just showing an alien planet's varying terrain for once. Pretty lacklustre storywise once again though.

nashwan, Monday, 15 October 2018 08:17 (five years ago) link

Nu Doc confirmed as a Remoaner ("Better Together")

Ward Fowler, Monday, 15 October 2018 08:24 (five years ago) link

lol that was my immediate thought as well.

Fizzles, Monday, 15 October 2018 08:31 (five years ago) link

flesh eating water was a cool idea. which they then explored by showing a picture of normal looking water and sailing over it.

Fizzles, Monday, 15 October 2018 08:32 (five years ago) link

I was a bit disappointed she found her Tardis already, I was expecting this series to be a single episodic adventure which would've been cool. Enjoyed it generally, lots of little quibbles but it was atmospheric and fun.

chap, Monday, 15 October 2018 12:04 (five years ago) link

Here is the only video I can find of the Walker clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsbNoUHwXWs

And here's the next lines.

(Nicholas jumps from the ladder and falls to the floor, seriously hurting himself)

Ranger Roberta 'Bobbie' Hunt: (shocked) Oh, my God! Are you nuts?

Salvatore Matacio: (grabs and restrains Bobbie, as Laura Justin; furious) You will not interfere with me teaching my son how to be a man. That is something you know nothing about! Huh?

Ranger Roberta 'Bobbie' Hunt: Yes.

(Nicholas is moaning, writhing, and crying in pain)

Salvatore Matacio: (slightly kicks him) Hey. Don't ever trust anyone, Nicholas. Nobody. The sooner you learn that, the better off you'll be. Stop crying.

adam the (abanana), Monday, 15 October 2018 13:15 (five years ago) link


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