2019 Rock N Roll HOF Nominees

those pricks inducted Bon Jovi because they supposedly had enough Springsteen type roots rock in their glam sandwich, even though they were basically the Jack Morris of '80s pop metal. Def Leppard were the true kings. Motorhead of course was huge, as canonical among hard rock fans as AC/DC and the Ramones, i think. they just didn't have the radio hits (though you hear them more and more now, and i think they'll get in eventually.)

But Motorhead was never really a metal band, all their stuff is essentially 1950s rock 'n roll played on 10. They're really much closer to AC/DC and the Ramones than to say Maiden or Priest.

they ignored hard rock for a long time, only relenting for no-doubters like AC/DC, Sabbath, and Led Zep.

Deep Purple finally got in 2016

I always got the sense that Motorhead was a band that the punk kids and the metal kids agreed on, like Black Sabbath.

i think the Misfits as well.

I always got the sense that Motorhead was a band that the punk kids and the metal kids agreed on, like Black Sabbath

my first exposure to Motorhead was in a Love + Rockets comic where this literally happens (the punk kid and the metal kid can't agree on anything to listen to except for "Ace of Spades")

punk + metal, the two genres the RRHOF has always shown a great affinity for amirite

the Jack Morris of '80s pop metal

this is a devastating burn

Radiohead vs Rundgren, not sure, unless Def Leppard comes up the middle.

Roxy Music, but they'll never get in.

I could see a compelling case for basically every nominee. I went with Radiohead, Roxy, Kraftwerk, Janet, and The Cure.

Are the Fall in the HoF already? Suspend any newcomers until the Fall enter imo.

(RnR HoF is the most USA being USA shit there is)

It's boring and meaningless but also kind of fun to talk/argue about. (Also, LOL @ the idea of The Fall ever making it in.)

I can see the case for all these nominees except RATM, whom I think are fucking horrible and (thankfully) don't have much of a rep anymore, so they fail on both counts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-EUKdn1FEk

If this doesn't seal a RnR HoF deal, I don't know what Mark E. Smith could've done more.

(voted Roxy Music, obv)

Mark would spit at least three of his teeth at LL Cool J, after the latter busted them out of his mouth.

LL Cool J a HoF contender, smdh

Surely Limp Bizkit will be in before RATM?

I've been on an island with RATM for years now. I think they're maybe the most unjustly denigrated band of the past two decades. I don't know why everyone else derives so much glee from shitting on them (I mean, partly I do, it's the whole agitprop-for-fratbros thing) but I think they kicked fucking ass.

I'll be voting for the Cure, Devo, Kraftwerk, Radiohead, and I don't know who else. Maybe the MC5, though I don't actually love any of their official albums and Wayne Kramer's autobiography was surprisingly dull. The New Year's Day 1970 show that used to be available as Teen Age Lust and is now part of a live box set is better than anything they released in their creative lifetime. Fuck Def Leppard forever.

xp people hold it against them that they started the whole rap-rock thing, tho they did it much much better than anyone else (not much of a RATM fan, but I still think it's true)

they started the whole rap-rock thing

haha waht

lmao

John Prine's a fun choice. Give it to him while he's here to get it.

Would like to see Roxy Music in there, but Kraftwerk the most important act by a mile, unless they aren't "rock", but that's a silly thing in the first place.

they started the whole rap-rock thing

haha waht

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, October 9, 2018 2:26 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol they weren't the first group to combine rap and rock obv, but they were the most prevalent influence to the punchline bands of the late '90s

I still can’t get over the fact that THE CURE not only aren’t in the HOF but that they’ve been eligible for.... 15 years? WTF? I know it’s all up to Jann but that’s as much of a no brainer as Talking Heads or Nirvana or whoever else got in on their first year. Maybe RS pissed off RS.

they were the most prevalent influence to the punchline bands of the late '90s

I dunno, it seems like much more of a continuum to me - from Rick Rubin/Run DMC/Beasties up through Judgment Night/Body Count/Anthrax+Public Enemy/Faith No More/RATM and then it *really* hit as a subgenre w Kid Rock, Limp Bizkit, etc. By the time this stuff hit it's commercial peak the bands involved were drawing on over a decade's worth of precedents.

Re: The Cure — there are very few “cool”/alternative bands from the ‘80s in the hall, and I don’t think any from Britain other than the Police (if they can be considered “cool”) and Clash? No Smiths, etc.

I always try to divide this into subjective and objective lists.

Objectively: Janet Jackson, Kraftwerk, LL Cool J, MC5, Radiohead, Roxy Music, Todd Rundgren

I think they all meet the weird popularity/critical acclaim/influence/peak-career value matrix I have set up in my mind. (I don't think one revered album, as with the Zombies, is enough.)

Subjectively: Out of those, I guess Todd Rundgren and the MC5 are my favourites.

Maybe the Cure too, objectively, I don't know. No use for anything past two or three early songs.

LOL -- Jann S. Wenner himself is an inductee (2004)

He founded, edited and published Rolling Stone magazine, the ultimate standard in music journalism. The first music magazine to take the form seriously, Rolling Stone blossomed from an indie magazine to a cornerstone of music journalism under his guidance and professionalism.

Everyone knows it was Crawdaddy; the Wikipedia page for that magazine has several helpful citations up top which demonstrate this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawdaddy_(magazine)

(I mean, who cares, but still -- that blurb is BS)

both melody maker and NME predate rolling stone, too

I don't think they took things very seriously till the 70 though.

60s issues of NME are remarkably dire

Faith No More would definitely be a better choice than RATM.

Faith No More is never a better choice than anything. Faith No More are a garbage band for pseuds.

ooh that's me

The punchline is that RHCP is already in, you guys

A CLAIM THAT REMAINS
INTACT

Come on, who wouldn’t want to hear a cleverly updated We Care A Lot for today’s world of #metoo and alt-right?

I'm not a huge fan or anything but credit where credit is due for putting out something as strange and abrasive as Angel Dust at the height of their fame, that is a really weird record

otm

The punchline is that RHCP is already in, you guys

― brush ’em like crazy (morrisp), Tuesday, October 9, 2018 3:50 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they had 18 years of extreme popularity, there was no chance they would miss out.

RHCP has a much better claim to the RR HOF than the Journeys of the world.

Re: The Cure — there are very few “cool”/alternative bands from the ‘80s in the hall, and I don’t think any from Britain other than the Police (if they can be considered “cool”) and Clash? No Smiths, etc.

DEVO

Are Depeche Mode in yet? They seem inevitable.

No they are not

Are we voting for who we want to get in/most deserving in our eyes? Or predicting who will get in?

― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Wednesday, October 10, 2018

This wasn’t (and still isn’t) clear to me, either...

I don’t think I’ve even followed any HoF ceremony. How many winners are there? Previous years give me like 4 or 5 winners unless I’m reading it wrong.

Stevie Nicks 0

lmao

So I started listening to that Rock Hall podcast mentioned upthread. It's pretty damn charming. I thought it would be something enjoyable to hate-listen while stuck in traffic, but I'm actually kind of hooked.

“Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2019 Inductees” (RockHall.com). The Zombies: two effectively Beatle-style Top 10 hits in 1965 (think of “She’s Not There” and “No Reply” — which one disappears in the face of the other?) and another one, boring even if the radio loves it, four years later. But when the Shangri-Las — “Remember (Walking in the Sand),” “Leader of the Pack,” “Give Him a Great Big Kiss,” “Out in the Streets” and “I Can Never Go Home Anymore” — three of them Top Ten in 1964 and 1965, one of them Number One, all of them not merely hits, but iconic — have never been nominated, let alone voted in, how can this mean anything at all? I don’t know if Janet Jackson or Def Leppard would agree, but I’d bet Stevie Nicks and Bryan Ferry would.

This made me laugh, because I've seen the same point made a thousand times in relation to Barry Bonds and/or Roger Clemens. I've always resisted the formulation when applied to baseball because, agree or disagree, I've always known why Bonds and Clemens have not (yet) been voted in--it's not some inexplicable mystery.

When it comes to the Shangri-Las, he may be onto something.

(Greil Marcus--was going to post that on his thread but moved it over here.)

I'm all for putting the Shangri-Las in the MLB hall of fame

did dude just shit on "Time of the Season"

Shirelles and Ronettes are in; Shangs absolutely should be, too.

i love time of the season and i think this year's rock hall class is a perfectly decent one, all things considered, and i'd take the shangri-las over every single one of 'em in a heartbeat.

and now that alan trammell's in the mlb hall, i'd be happy to devote my efforts to getting the shangri-las in there too.

also, he didn't even mention "train from kansas city"

to continue the baseball HOF analogy, using the Zombies' lower number of top ten hits against them is like Adrian Beltre making the HOF and some someone grousing about the fact that he made only 4 All Star games.

did dude just shit on "Time of the Season"

― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Thursday, December 27, 2018 12:34 AM (twenty hours ago)

i think he also just shit on "no reply" (tho, as so often with greil, you can't always be sure -- i assumed for years he hated the faces because of a line in his old rod stewart essay that seemed like a dismissal, but he said recently in the ask-GM column that he loved them).

somehow i'd missed that the shangri-las aren't in the hall of fame -- that's inexcusable.

I thought he was being out and out dismissive of the Zombies, describing the first hits as "effectively" Beatles-esque before bringing in the genuine article for comparison (BTW, were the Zombies included in his discog in Stranded? Don't have a copy anymore to check.) Which is classic Greil down to how off-base it is as an argument--I get a feeling he hasn't heard much else of their work since it was new, and if he had, perhaps he'd realize there was way more to the band than the three hits.

He's right that The Shangri-Las should be considered, although it's understandable that they haven't given the bias of the voting body towards Rock vs. Girl Group Pop. Looking at the inductees list (and discounting the Supremes and Martha & The Vandellas, because MOTOWN), the Shirelles ('96), the Ronettes ('07) and Darlene Love ('11) are literally the only performers from the genre that have made it in.

They're not as cool, but one could make the same argument he made for the Crystals, Lesley Gore, or Dionne Warwick (holy shit @ that one too).

wait, dionne warwick isn't in? wtf is wrong w/people???

Slayer should be in the Hall and so should Dionne Warwick and they should collabo on a medley of "Seasons in the Abyss/Walk on By" at the ceremony

I love how the usual argument by haters against the Warwicks, etc is that "omg it's the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame", which conveniently gets ignored when one of their favorite "not rock but rock-adjacent" acts gets in.

[the usual argument by haters against the Warwicks, etc is that "omg it's the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame"

instead, they should say, "oh shit, we just assumed we'd already inducted her! sorry!" that would be a better, and more believable, argument.

I’m gonna be hella cyclical and say the Shirelles are in b/c the Beatles, and Ronettes b/c Phil Spector.

*Cynical (lol)

It really should just be renamed the Pop Music HoF anyway.

It should be renamed "A List of a Bunch of Musicians"

Greenwich/Barry are in as non-performers, at least: https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/ellie-greenwich-and-jeff-barry

Slayer probably is still too controversial?

oh yeah I was totally kidding about them

I’m really surprised the NY Dolls aren’t in, either... How deep does the “Great Big Kiss” conspiracy go??