Taking sides: Children vs. (non-human) animals

I heard South Dakota is considering legislation to make all men getting vasectomies watch films about fetal development, talking about their perfect little fingers and toes at sixteen weeks. nope. just kidding. Old white men don't give a shit if men get snipped. They only want to dictate what women do with their bodies.

'the world is terrible don't have children that could work to make it better' is a level of defeatism i can't get with rn

like, pieces of shit aren't stopping having children, cf dtjr

yeah but the kids im not having wint have to fuckin deal with them

imo the argument about defeatism can be turned on head

"oh welp hasnt worked out, replicate quick!"

thats not a serious argument but then there are no serious arguments

I heard South Dakota is considering legislation to make all men getting vasectomies watch films about fetal development, talking about their perfect little fingers and toes at sixteen weeks.

acc to the Torah vasectomies is much more forbidden than abortion tmyk there's a specific verse in the OT (Deuteronomy 23:1) about the former and nothing about the latter

I don't have kids and will most likely never procreate but it seems like adoption could be a noble undertaking if I ever become a fully-fledged adult.

Also I would never render a moral judgment against others for having kids. I just worry about those others and their kids and say the secular version of prayers for their continued well-being.

I'm fine with people disliking kids and fine with people taking pains to avoid the horrors of reproduction but kindly fuck off telling other people what to do

one slippery slope away from forced sterilization of undesirables

I'd vote for logan's run over children of men

World full of nothing but adults is the true hell.

I like to keep my misanthropy self-focused nowadays.

thats not a serious argument but then there are no serious arguments

it would seem so

There's almost a noble big picture streak in antinatalism but she it's invoked I think it's usually in v bad faith.

98% of ilx is tellin ppl what to do

Tru

nb i do actually think kids are great

not worth the hassle, personally speaking is all

Oh yeah I mean kids are fine people; I just think it’d be sensible if we wrapped up the project, for assorted reasons.

yeah

parents

i love my kids. i also get extremely envious of people without kids.

Deciding not to have kids has probably been the best decision I took in the last ten years. It's a decision that gives me joy and peace of mind on a daily basis.

i love my kids. i also get extremely envious of people without kids.

I’ll never have any children
I would bear them and confuse them, my children
And I’m not at all afraid of changing
But I don’t know what good it would do me
I am no longer afraid
The truth doesn’t terrify us, terrify us
My salvation is found in discipline, in discipline

0w3n P4ll3tt head-shakingly-i'm-not-worthy otm

life is more fun when you don't have kids and i'm excited for the day they're old enough that i get some of my recreational life back and can out to dinner and movies without paying a sitter a fortune. but also they give my life meaning and i don't know who i'd be without them. and also i hope they take care of me in my old age.

^^^

little kids are annoying often but bigger rule way more than you sad lot

The best thing about kids is passing them back to their parents after whatever rambling story they're trying to tell you finally drifts to something enough like a conclusion that you can politely escape.

I’m hoping the state will take care of me in my old age, but not as much as I hope I don’t get old

xp lil Malicks

Don’t you live in the US cuz

I babysit my friends' kids as. like, my civic duty. I am thrilled when I get to return them with little/no damage.

I think having kids because you think that they'll take care of you is one of the most selfish reasons. Don't put that on your kid.

If that's how it ends up working out that's awesome but that's also a hell of a lot of pressure to put on a kid especially when you're citing that as one of the reasons you had them.

^^ otm x 1000

Also:

little kids are annoying often but bigger rule way more than you sad lot

― droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:38 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The bigger kids of today are tomorrow's sad lot. Probably even sadder than us iirc.

no I was talking about all of you in particular vs the actual bigger kids I know

I mean I have to spend time with adults because of work but what a bunch of navel-gazing bores in general whereas kids just want to play

our kid is a constant joy and source of much terror, who needs a book of ghost stories to read at night when you know you're going to have a shadowy figure standing silently by your bed at 5 AM every morning?

it's still a mixed bag for me dealing with other people's children, because some of them are pretty obnoxious and one of them gives me some bad vibes, some real "we need to talk about Kevin" willies. But so many of them are funny and sharp and good people. Being around those kids makes me optimistic, it cheers me up.

sometimes i'll read my Facebook feed and think, jeez i really have to keep my kid off social media. not for bullying reasons but it's often just so wearying and cynical and disingenuous.

no I was talking about all of you in particular vs the actual bigger kids I know

― droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, October 9, 2018 7:42 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The actual bigger kids you know will still be sadder than us lot. After all we dealt them a planet, a life, even worse than we got.

So basically since you’re all powerless to make the world anything more than a shithole, you have no faith in anyone else that resembles you being able to do any better. Reasonable assumption.

Also not having kids is easy as shit & saves you a ton of money, that’s another good reason & probably the best one. I’d prefer people stick to that rather than attempts to be high-falutin’ about it.

sometimes i'll read my Facebook feed and think, jeez i really have to keep my kid off social media. not for bullying reasons but it's often just so wearying and cynical and disingenuous.

disappointing revive tbh -- there's just no substitute for lex's absurd solipsism

is the suggestion that you are going to save the world, or your kids are, tb?

nb i think the world is grand, apart from apocalyptists. every generation seems to think it has to save the world, seems v unlikely that theyre all correct.

my actual reason is yr second paragraph

Also not having kids is easy as shit

Rong

So basically since you’re all powerless to make the world anything more than a shithole, you have no faith in anyone else that resembles you being able to do any better. Reasonable assumption.

Uhm... yes!

disappointing revive tbh -- there's just no substitute for lex's absurd solipsism

― mookieproof, Tuesday, October 9, 2018 11:03 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was going to lay in to my heavily abstract anti-natalism based on the argument that it's a harm to come into existence but I lost heart. I want to reiterate that I think kids are good.

our kid is a constant joy and source of much terror, who needs a book of ghost stories to read at night when you know you're going to have a shadowy figure standing silently by your bed at 5 AM every morning?

lol yes

tbf I have distinct memories of doing exactly that to my dad, so circle of life etc.

Is "I want to pass on my genes/want to pass on something" still a thing for people to have kids? Or has that argument died along with the aristocracies and their (inbred) families? Do men (men bcz women wouldn't be this dumb) "value" passing on their genes still?

My aim is to leave as little trace of myself as possible. Posting on ilx not helping tbh.