Brazil - have you been there?

There's a real sense of deja vu looking at my Brazilian friends on FB saying they're in mourning for their country, unfriending friends and family members who voted Bolsonaro, etc.

people are such craven fucking savage morons. you'd have thought they'd have learnt something as children, but no here they are, voting in satan himself, all in the name of their unreconstructed need to see other people dead. fuck this species

What is moronic is to call Brazil or India the most fucked-up country.

There is a 2nd round so Haddad could win that.

What is moronic is to call Brazil or India the most fucked-up country.

― xyzzzz__, Monday, October 8, 2018 11:02 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk, ecological damage x murder rates x rape culture x suicide x political corruption it all kind of points to a perfect storm. what would your suggestion be

US...ah never mind.

Just under 80% turnout and yet Bolsonaro only just missed an outright victory :[

+ of all the countries built on rape, murder and slavery by europeans they've pretty much got the most abominable histories give or take the african west coast. i mean sure the congo/car might be more fucked up on some average-life-of-citizen basis but these are places that have just seen endless, endless evil for centuries anyway this isn't a competition really whatever

This will end well.

America wishes it had India's Supreme Court.

The whole Brazil situation just seems desperately sad, scary and depressing. In a final two run-off you'd normally expect some kind of Macron/Le Pen outcome but 46% of the vote is terrifying.

imago, I'm sure you're doing this with no ill intent, but the very thought exercise of "let's decide what the most fucked up place on earth is" has an unsavoury Mondo Cane exoticism to it, and certainly isn't very helpful at a stage where most of our problems are global in reach.

The whole Brazil situation just seems desperately sad, scary and depressing. In a final two run-off you'd normally expect some kind of Macron/Le Pen outcome but 46% of the vote is terrifying.

Yeah, and Macron had a somewhat successful rebrand on his side, while Haddad is settled with the legacy of the PT*. I can't see this going well.

* obviously I think Macron's rebrand is bullshit and the anti-PT sentiment pretty suspect but that's neither here nor there rn.

yeah no that's fair, i'm just venting, this guy cannot be for real and yet he is

If you had spent time any reading about Latin America or bothered to check any of its literature instead of wanking on about Pynchon you'd know this guy is very much for real and very common.

tbf....i did read 'nazi literature in the americas' recently

but it felt like a fantasy with an only tangential relationship to truth. lol

still great obv

I wonder how much Haddad can take away from Gomes (12.5) and then the others? Need to look at the full breakdown once we have full results

Anecdotally, from the people I’ve discussed it with, there seems to be a complacency that Brazilian social liberalism isn’t under threat - that Bolsonaro’s rise has much more to do with economic stagnation and perceived corruption than a Trump-style culture war, though the view from SP is likely to be different from elsewhere.

It can’t be underestimated how effective the campaign to tarnish first the left and then ‘politicians in general’ has been. It’s also incredibly well-funded and able to successfully astroturf targeted public protests. Tracing where all that money comes from, within Brazil, would be interesting.

I agree that it's to do with economic stagnation and perceived corruption, but surely so is Trump's culture war? Drain the swamp, bring back jobs, etc. It goes hand in hand, Bolsonaro stans argue exclusively by attacking "corruption" and when you bring up the dude's fascist ideas it's either "fake news" or they fess up that they see no problem with that.

"How can he be sexist when he's pushing for chemical castration of rapists?" was one particularly choice tidbit from a recent Bolsonaro FB argument I witnessed.

Still wrapping round my head around the far right party in Brazil being known as the "Social Liberals".

Interesting demographic data that suggests he’s surprisingly popular with the youngest voters as well as the oldest:

I’ve been wondering who the 40 million Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro yday are, and my mum sent me this polling (link below). There are some demographic trends...

— Yara Rodrigues Fowler 🧜🏼‍♀️ #mariellepresente (@yazzarf) October 8, 2018

I'm with my Brazilian friends against this fucker; they've been in the streets for weeks against this, and now it's happened. but I do wonder what is to be done about Brazilian crime. I passed on an invitation to Salvador last fall because the crime there seemed to be spiking; and sure enough, several people who went ended up getting robbed. when I've been in the SP area it's been taxis everywhere on the advice of locals. there's an air of menace everywhere it seems. How can you live like this? This election is on the surface at least about that, and about the complacency of past politicians in the light of this crime. What is the left going to do about it?

SP isn't particularly dangerous imo if you know which areas to avoid.

It's worth bearing in mind that the police were still killing three or four thousand people a year under Dilma and Lula, that the jails were still overflowing, etc. The number of shootings has gone up since, and will go up further under Bolsonaro, but it's not as though there hasn't always been a heavy-handed, militarised approach to law enforcement. It's just not particularly effective in the context of an extended economic crisis and unbelievable disparity in wealth.

I've spent more time in Campinas than in SP proper, so I trust you there.

I suppose a big enough part of the population isn't ready to deal with inequality, and so they're thinking another round of (unofficial) military rule can safeguard the way things have been, which is better than losing their current status.

Looking at this more widely and beyond the election...obviously its horrible if you are on the Brazilian left but the new socialist article talks about the problems even if you have Haddad winning, and the obstacles he would face from the elites. Lula -- like most Latin American left leaders -- compromised and never really dealt with breaking elite power. The elites themselves are under threat from climate change and ofc the fallout from the financial crash never properly being dealt with.

So while its depressing and divisive I also see opportunities for action and organisation too. It's dangerous, could go either way but whatever happens the days of having dumbos going on about the worst country are surely coming to an end.

"Whatever happens"

Not to worry, dialectical materialism will save the day. It's all just an unpleasant interlude.

I mean it could go both ways, right? At least something is happening! Anything is better than liberal mediocrity!

Pretty much. We'd have time for libs and plenty for sitting on the fence but its a hot autumn we are having.

We'll solve it comrade, just you wait. It'll take a bit of extra bloodshed but it will have been worthwhile. Once we reach the end of history, there will be no more sickness, no more crying, no more poverty, no more death. We will have overcome it all through sheer strength of will. There will be no ghosts left to haunt us, for the Geist will have reached its final destination.

You are catching on, my friend.

Hilarious post pomenitul, as if the left are the only ones that spill blood.

That was obviously, clearly, glaringly implied, wasn't it?

Yeah you were on your libs are best as the world burns routine again. Keep it up.

On the contrary, I was wistfully musing about the utopia that I will unfortunately not come to know in my lifetime but that will no doubt be achieved thanks to our collective efforts as a species. As long as you have faith… (This is totally-not-secularised-monotheism btw).

Just staying true to the Absolute, you know what I mean? All it takes is a bit of patience. The interregnum will go away eventually – it always does.

No but you are clearly having fun with it. And I would never want to stop the fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1rxzFL0dE

Please if this ghoul is winning at least let it be close.

this thread title sounds like the title of some italo disco song

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/28/brazil-election-leftwinger-fernando-haddad-narrows-lead-in-polls-ahead-of-runoff

However, Haddad’s prospects of overhauling Bolsonaro were dented when he failed to win the crucial endorsement of former center-left candidate Ciro Gomes on Saturday.
Gomes, a former governor of the north-east Ceará state, is influential in Brazil’s poorest region. His endorsement could have given Haddad’s Workers party (PT) a big lift in the South American country’s most polarised election in a generation.

what the ever-long fuck is wrong with Brazil's centrists that they can't endorse a center-left candidate over a guy who promises to bring back a fucking murderous dictatorship?

ciro's PDT has longstanding tensions with PT. PDT has a more robustly socialist history and counts with one of the country's few successful openly socialist(ish) politicians in leonel brizola, and they are historically suspicious of PT's more anything-goes, low-brow approach to leftism. ciro wants to secure the anti-PT vote in a potential 2022 election. I think thats delusional.

so, how we ended up electing a guy who publicly shares that his granddad was a nazi soldier and that he would gladly fight in hitler's army himself: it's mostly a libidinal/identity thing. polls have long shown that the armed forces are the most trusted institution among brazilians. we have such a sentimental attachment to the figure of a military strongman candidate that we can just project all we want onto him (effective, strong, incorruptible etc) while ignoring all the facts (he was a lowly officer who was expelled from the army b/c of a failed terrorist plot; he has changed party allegiance around 10 times; has left no substantial legacy during his 27 years in congress).

reminding b voters of his failings and violent statements is missing the point; they dont operate on that kind of logic, it's a kierkegaardian leap of faith, they WANT and NEED him to be the alpha soldier they have dreamed about all their lives. this sort of 'tyrant father' might be *the* master-signifier in the brazilin imaginary, see: our most internally successful cultural product being the movie <i>tropa de elite</i> during which the country fell head over heels in love with ultraviolent cops. there is also the extremely successful anti-corruption operation Lava-Jato being led by the ruthless, handsome judge Moro, who is treated like a god by the media and much of the populace. fitness/sports/fighting subcultures also all vote en masse for bolsonaro (which is a kind of obvious elective affinity, I know, but bolsonaro is actually flabby and skinny-fat)

other things that add to the perfect storm:

identification with his proud whiteness, in a context of generational social chaos/crime/violence which has led to polarization between white/rich and poc/poor sections of society (white poor places also tend to vote for him). he will probably allow our extremely brutal military police to enact de facto genocide on favelados, and most of us will stay silent about it

the widespread hatred of the left which reached a feverish pitch this year (only 39% of the electorate actually votes for bolsonaro, but 50% HATES PT and would not vote for them under any circumstances), this despite the irony that many of these are poor people who enjoyed the benefits of PT's social safety net. the reasons for this are surreal and darkly humorous, including the success of hysterical right-wing memes and fake news spread by right-libertarian outfits like MBL which mimic american channer culture. it's not that "memes caused widespread proto-fascism", it's a bit chicken and egg, but there's a correlation. there is generally, I think, a spiritual affinity between american and brazilian culture, in the sense that both are v mercantilistic, distrustful of any kind of collectivism, and politically subliterate and proud of it

also widespread corruption, anti-establishment feeling etc. but really, I always circle back to our military infatuation. to be essentialist for a bit, it's a very latin thing—I've always said to my friends that the only way for a latin leftist government to secure long-term power is for it to somehow infiltrate the military, which did happen with chavista venezuela. a part of me even thinks that, if we were in bizarroworld and bolsonaro was a tankie communist calling for land reform, we would still vote for him en masse because of his army credentials and manly bravado

long post whoa

Thank you for writing it.

yes, thank you.

Thanks for the analysis, epigone.

excellent.

Yes excellent - although I don't know if that explains Lula and Dilma. I was just recommending Bunuel's El to a friend yesterday when talking about all of this - which gets that masculine Latin American culture just right.

thanks, epigone.

results coming in 2-3 hours, i guess? god, some good news would be nice today.

Since Bolsonaro has openly stated that if he loses in the second round it's voter fraud, I'm worried that even if we get lucky and the fucker doesn't win the fall-out from this will be bloody.

More than 20 Brazilian universities were invaded by the military police in the past 2 days. They confiscated material on the history of fascism, interrupted classes due to 'ideological content', removed anti-fascist banners and posters claiming that it was electoral propaganda. https://t.co/T0KyOhe2Yv

— Rodrigo Castriota (@castriotar) October 26, 2018

fucking hell.

christ, the election was not even close. 55/45 or 56/44.