Is the Guardian worse than it used to be?

studied under edward bawden, if tim is reading -- most obvious in the first image (bawden also illustrated cookery books)

Yeah I really love David Gentleman's work.

I love this also, which is by his dad, Tom Gentleman (love it so much we have it up in our flat)

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/work/P/P01/P01705_10.jpg

that's tremendous.

just thinking about thos ales.

David Gentleman is still going and did (does?) posters for the Stop The War coalition.Quite a career.
http://www.davidgentleman.com/resized/WEB-11-PROTEST---08.jpg

i think at this point it would be fair to regard the guardian as the enemy, excepting a few individual journalists

Honestly my favourite thing about using a content blocker for my phone is never seeing their pleas for money to fund their terf/racist/apologist shit again. That editorial was a disgrace, but it’s just the latest in a long line of shit.

What piece are youse referring to?

the editorial on the Gender Recognition Act I presume. tldr. Knew it would be a load of hateful shite.

Yep, that’s the one.

what exactly do terfs get out of it

When I say terfs I don’t mean women; in fact, terfs are much more likely to be men. Women are for the most part, very supportive of trans women. People claiming terf means women are deliberately trying to peddle a fake misogyny narrative. It’s a position based on transphobia.

— Lily🌹Madigan (@LilyMadigan99) October 9, 2018

Who knew men were the radical feminists and not women?

you are all joking, surely? the vilest and most hateful part of that particular debate has come from the radical trans wing, abuse from whom against lesbian feminists particularly has been shocking. i was extraordinarly relieved to read even that level support from the guardian.

show your...working?

what?

I’m not sure how you can equivocate people doing their best to smear all trans people as paedophiles and rapists against whatever you’ve been seeing? Or the crowd who were out in Manchester the other night approaching random men and warning them trans women were a threat to their daughters?

in what way is it inspiring?

― Heavy Messages (jed_), Tuesday, 5 June 2018 01:34 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i guess this is not the thread where you can question the question, though.

― Heavy Messages (jed_), Tuesday, 5 June 2018 01:47 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ jed is a terf and I claim my £5

that's not what they were doing, it was a couple of activists, not a crowd. conversely, I haven't seen any feminist activists label all trans men as paedophiles and rapists. I have, however, seen trans labour councillors telling (women's councillors!) labour women with concerns to "go fuck themselves" (lilly Madigan) or to "go and suck my big lady cock" (tanya love) if they disagreed with trans women having access to women's safe-spaces.

Thank you for that paste, saves me engaging further here in good faith and wasting any time. As we all know by now, civility is the most important part in a debate about human rights!

hey jed, go fuck yourself

thank you.

Twitter is unbearable now due to this stuff, can we not spread it here please?

I have no idea what the fuck just happened.

which stuff

the stuff where some people deny others their personhood and effectively recommend suicide, or the stuff where people resist this

The bit where any opinion became binary (lol the irony) based on a hyperbolic definition of the opposing stance.

i suppose. but this is one case where i feel strongly that one stance is getting nothing out of it except...well, i don't know

Nobody is getting anything out of it, it's just two groups of people who I generally like shouting at each-other about things like reposting things from other people who once said something that implied something else and all I can get out of it is anxiety and a feeling that nothing will ever be resolved again.

This debate can't get more depressing for me; it's sub-Brexit now

terf patter much more popular in the uk than it is in canada thankfully. a big thing i notice about the debate in the uk is how disingenuous the terfs are, talking about dangers of "men" using women's services when the majority of uk services for women ran by feminists, such as a rape crisis centres etc. are already trans inclusive and have been for ages!

(thankfully for me who lives in canada i should note)

Just a little over 10 years ago I was biding time on the waiting list for my flat at women’s accommodation and one of my fellow residents was trans. She had all sorts of problems because her family had shunned her but nobody - not the service users or the people on staff - were in the least bit worried about her not being woman enough, or a threat to other women.

Most ‘gender critical’/terf people have zero experience of interacting with trans people and mein gott, it shows.

The Scottish press seems v. exercised about this, more so than in the rest of the UK as far as I can tell

I wouldn’t have thought it was physically possible to be more het up about it than The Times, which seems to have made it the central plank all other news is slotted around as space allows.

the paper of record loves a culture war and i guess campus safe space type pieces lost some of their luster, trans people make a better bogeyman.

the safe spacers are the ones who've turned cop in the trans wars. or at least, the terfs are using safe space rhetoric to assert their arguments. snowflakes imo

intersectional language being used to justify bigotry is going to be big in our future. i saw mike cernovich use "bodies" in a tweet yesterday

I think there's a general confusion about what ppl understand by 'trans' which isn't helping things.

maybe; equally we haven't had a good internecine ukilx bunfight in a while and this might be our hour

I've been wondering for months when it was gonna arrive tbh but if there's one place worse than Twitter for nuanced debate it's ilx

Looking forward to a bunch of cis men explain how to be a good feminist though

i love that element of the rhetoric around this issue. don't engage with the actual anti-trans element of the argument you would like to make but instead attack allies who don't have the correct identity to be allowed an opinion

this is most enjoyable when graham linehan perversely uses this angle

checks calendar

lads

its 2018 not back when ilx was good

i love that element of the rhetoric around this issue. don't engage with the actual anti-trans element of the argument you would like to make but instead attack allies who don't have the correct identity to be allowed an opinion

― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:32 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and then they all het up

lol
hope you're not referencing fish there

Good luck uk

and then they all het up

I made an inappropriate Eddie Izzard joke on Facebook last night, I'm not touching this

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16993203.gender-recognition-act-debate-is-being-used-to-roll-back-trans-rights/